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Does Isaiah 19 to 21 have a last day application? #108342
02/14/09 01:36 AM
02/14/09 01:36 AM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Does Isaiah 19 to 21 have a last day application? Has anyone done or heard of a study on this?

Quote:
Chapter 19

19:1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
19:2 And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, [and] kingdom against kingdom.
19:3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards.
19:4 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts.
19:5 And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.
19:6 And they shall turn the rivers far away; [and] the brooks of defence shall be emptied and dried up: the reeds and flags shall wither.
19:7 The paper reeds by the brooks, by the mouth of the brooks, and every thing sown by the brooks, shall wither, be driven away, and be no [more].
19:8 The fishers also shall mourn, and all they that cast angle into the brooks shall lament, and they that spread nets upon the waters shall languish.
19:9 Moreover they that work in fine flax, and they that weave networks, shall be confounded.
19:10 And they shall be broken in the purposes thereof, all that make sluices [and] ponds for fish.
19:11 Surely the princes of Zoan [are] fools, the counsel of the wise counsellors of Pharaoh is become brutish: how say ye unto Pharaoh, I [am] the son of the wise, the son of ancient kings?
19:12 Where [are] they? where [are] thy wise [men]? and let them tell thee now, and let them know what the LORD of hosts hath purposed upon Egypt.
19:13 The princes of Zoan are become fools, the princes of Noph are deceived; they have also seduced Egypt, [even they that are] the stay of the tribes thereof.
19:14 The LORD hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken [man] staggereth in his vomit.
19:15 Neither shall there be [any] work for Egypt, which the head or tail, branch or rush, may do.
19:16 In that day shall Egypt be like unto women: and it shall be afraid and fear because of the shaking of the hand of the LORD of hosts, which he shaketh over it.
19:17 And the land of Judah shall be a terror unto Egypt, every one that maketh mention thereof shall be afraid in himself, because of the counsel of the LORD of hosts, which he hath determined against it.
19:18 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction.
19:19 In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.
19:20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.
19:21 And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform [it].
19:22 And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal [it]: and they shall return [even] to the LORD, and he shall be entreated of them, and shall heal them.
19:23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
19:24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, [even] a blessing in the midst of the land:
19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed [be] Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

Chapter 20

20:1 In the year that Tartan came unto Ashdod (when Sargon the king of Assyria sent him,) and fought against Ashdod, and took it;
20:2 At the same time spake the LORD by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot.
20:3 And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years [for] a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia;
20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with [their] buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
20:5 And they shall be afraid and ashamed of Ethiopia their expectation, and of Egypt their glory.
20:6 And the inhabitant of this isle shall say in that day, Behold, such [is] our expectation, whither we flee for help to be delivered from the king of Assyria: and how shall we escape?

Chapter 21

21:1 The burden of the desert of the sea. As whirlwinds in the south pass through; [so] it cometh from the desert, from a terrible land.
21:2 A grievous vision is declared unto me; the treacherous dealer dealeth treacherously, and the spoiler spoileth. Go up, O Elam: besiege, O Media; all the sighing thereof have I made to cease.
21:3 Therefore are my loins filled with pain: pangs have taken hold upon me, as the pangs of a woman that travaileth: I was bowed down at the hearing [of it]; I was dismayed at the seeing [of it].
21:4 My heart panted, fearfulness affrighted me: the night of my pleasure hath he turned into fear unto me.
21:5 Prepare the table, watch in the watchtower, eat, drink: arise, ye princes, [and] anoint the shield.
21:6 For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Go, set a watchman, let him declare what he seeth.
21:7 And he saw a chariot [with] a couple of horsemen, a chariot of asses, [and] a chariot of camels; and he hearkened diligently with much heed:
21:8 And he cried, A lion: My lord, I stand continually upon the watchtower in the daytime, and I am set in my ward whole nights:
21:9 And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, [with] a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground.
21:10 O my threshing, and the corn of my floor: that which I have heard of the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, have I declared unto you.
21:11 The burden of Dumah. He calleth to me out of Seir, Watchman, what of the night? Watchman, what of the night?
21:12 The watchman said, The morning cometh, and also the night: if ye will inquire, inquire ye: return, come.
21:13 The burden upon Arabia. In the forest in Arabia shall ye lodge, O ye travelling companies of Dedanim.
21:14 The inhabitants of the land of Tema brought water to him that was thirsty, they prevented with their bread him that fled.
21:15 For they fled from the swords, from the drawn sword, and from the bent bow, and from the grievousness of war.
21:16 For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Within a year, according to the years of an hireling, and all the glory of Kedar shall fail:
21:17 And the residue of the number of archers, the mighty men of the children of Kedar, shall be diminished: for the LORD God of Israel hath spoken [it].

Re: Does Isaiah 19 to 21 have a last day application? [Re: Charity] #108408
02/15/09 07:03 PM
02/15/09 07:03 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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No, I haven't done a study on it before. Have you? If so, what have you discovered?

Re: Does Isaiah 19 to 21 have a last day application? [Re: Mountain Man] #108486
02/17/09 01:53 AM
02/17/09 01:53 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
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I've just started studying it and other part of Isaiah. Much of Isaiah is 'last days' from what I've seen so far. I'm not sure when I'll be able to post. If anyone has any comments or insights please go ahead.

Re: Does Isaiah 19 to 21 have a last day application? [Re: Charity] #109127
02/28/09 01:48 AM
02/28/09 01:48 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
I probably should have narrowed this to the following passage in Isaiah 19:
Quote:

19:18 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction. [some translate this city of the Sun.]
19:19 In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.
19:20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.
19:21 And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform [it].
19:22 And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal [it]: and they shall return [even] to the LORD, and he shall be entreated of them, and shall heal them.
19:23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
19:24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, [even] a blessing in the midst of the land:
19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed [be] Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.


The last two verses are remarkable! (You may have to use the scoll bar on the right to read them.) Ask any Jew. I wonder what the rabbis think of these verses. But there they are. Fundamentalists would take these literally I suppose, but they do have a last day application to spiritual Isreal I'm quite sure.

Re: Does Isaiah 19 to 21 have a last day application? [Re: Charity] #109128
02/28/09 01:51 AM
02/28/09 01:51 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
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I can't find any comments on the above passage in the SOP.

Re: Does Isaiah 19 to 21 have a last day application? [Re: Charity] #109194
03/01/09 07:13 PM
03/01/09 07:13 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Is it possible Isaiah's prophecies were originally supposed to be fulfilled around his time period? That is, God would have used Assyria and Babylon to bring law and order to the land, like Rome did, so that the gospel could have free course?

Re: Does Isaiah 19 to 21 have a last day application? [Re: Charity] #109206
03/01/09 09:17 PM
03/01/09 09:17 PM
teresaq  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
I probably should have narrowed this to the following passage in Isaiah 19:
Quote:

19:18 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction. [some translate this city of the Sun.]
19:19 In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.
19:20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.
19:21 And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform [it].
19:22 And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal [it]: and they shall return [even] to the LORD, and he shall be entreated of them, and shall heal them.
19:23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
19:24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, [even] a blessing in the midst of the land:
19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed [be] Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.


The last two verses are remarkable! (You may have to use the scoll bar on the right to read them.) Ask any Jew. I wonder what the rabbis think of these verses. But there they are. Fundamentalists would take these literally I suppose, but they do have a last day application to spiritual Isreal I'm quite sure.


my tentative understanding in studying isaiah and those verses has been that that was Gods original plan, what could have happened had israel followed God.

i can see egypt being converted but assyria was pretty bad. i always found it interesting that israel would be the third, not the first.....


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: Does Isaiah 19 to 21 have a last day application? [Re: teresaq] #109276
03/03/09 01:23 AM
03/03/09 01:23 AM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Posts: 4,583
USA
Egypt, Edom, Moab, and Ammon are all mentioned in Daniel 11:41 and 42 and Adventists agree that those verses are in the future. We generally view Egypt as representing an athiestic political power such as Revolutionary France, but we don't have a consensus on Edom, Moab and Ammon. Here's a parallel passage to Isaiah 19. It's in Isaiah 11.

Quote:
10. And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall
stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek:
and his rest shall be glorious. {glorious: Heb. glory}
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the Lord shall
set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his
people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from
Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and
from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall
assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the
dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. {corners:
Heb. wings}
13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries
of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and
Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines
toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they
shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of
Ammon shall obey them. {them of: Heb. the children of} {they
shall lay...: Heb. Edom and Moab shall be the laying on of their
hand} {shall obey...: Heb. their obedience}
15 And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the
Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand
over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make
[men] go over dryshod. {dryshod: Heb. in shoes}
16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people,
which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in
the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

The above passage is followed by a song of deliverence that the remnant sing who escape from 'Egypt' and 'Assyria'. This is another indicator that the passages in chapters 19 and 11 may have a last day application.

My view: Perhaps the greatest stronghold today for modern athiesm are the renoun universities of the west. Maybe some of these will experience an Oxford and Cambridge-type revival like the revivals that sprang up there during the Protestant Reformation.

Assyria was to the north of Babylon and the most powerful nation before it fell to the Babylonians. In Isaiah and other books of the Bible it seems to have the same roll as Babylon - as the tool of God to punish the other nations and to bring judgment on His people as well. But like Babylon, it's 'river' will be dried up, that is, it's power broken and a remnant will escape from Assyria, just as a remnant will escape from Babylon to become the Lord's people. Whereas Babylon represents the confusion of Christendom, Assyria appears to represent the world's religions in general. God promises a remnant not only from Babylon, but also from all of the world's faiths, from every nation, tongue and people. Whereas Edom, Moab and Ammon all have a common ancestry in Abraham and therefore they may symbolize, like Babylon, people whose religions have Judaic-Christian roots, Assyria was a relgious nation but had no spiritual heritage common to the Hebrews.

Last edited by Mark Shipowick; 03/03/09 01:32 AM.
Re: Does Isaiah 19 to 21 have a last day application? [Re: Charity] #109280
03/03/09 02:47 AM
03/03/09 02:47 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Mark, do you think it should have had a literal fulfillment back in the day? Or, do you think it has always applied to the 21st century (or beyond)?

Re: Does Isaiah 19 to 21 have a last day application? [Re: Mountain Man] #109282
03/03/09 02:50 AM
03/03/09 02:50 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
PS - Edom, Moab, and Ammon were,as you say, first cousins to Israel. But they bitterly opposed Israel. Israel could symbolize SDAs, and E, M, and A could symbolize the rest of Christendom who oppose them in the time of trouble?

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