Mike said,

quote:

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Whenever Sister White denounced saying, I am sinless, it was always in the context of false sanctification and law breaking.

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I don't think that's right. She said that she herself would never claim to be sinless. Was she herself guilty of false sanctification and law breaking, then?

John, the quote Tom shared above is in the context of unsanctified people claiming to be holy and sinless. Jesus never claimed to holy and sinless - neither should we. But just because Jesus never claimed to be holy and sinless it doesn't mean He wasn't. The same is true of born again believers. We must leave it to God to declare our righteousness. Actions speak louder than words. By their fruits, not their boasting, ye shall know them.

We are either all of His and free of sin, or we are none of His full of sin. No one abiding in Christ can commit a known sin. It is impossible. They are righteous even as He is righteous. They are morally sinless. That's what the gospel is all about - liberty, freedom, and the abundant life. We cannot sin and be saved at the same time.

Of course, we are always free to separate ourselves from Jesus and resurrect our old man and revert to our old sinful ways, but so long as we are walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man we do not and cannot commit a known sin. Even throughout eternity we are free to sin and rebel, but, and praise the Lord, no one will exercise their freedom to do so.

If we do commit a known sin we dethrone the Holy Spirit. But God does not reject us, no way; rather, the Holy Spirit immediately begins impressing us from without to receive the free gift of repentance, which empowers us to confess and forsake our sin, plus it gives God the legal right to pardon us and to restore the relationship our sin severed.

As soon as we are forgiven and restored to the mind of the new man, the Holy Spirit once again ascends the throne of our soul temple and resumes empowering us from within to resist temptation and to reproduce the lovely character of Christ.

TDG 240
"He that loveth his life shall lose it" (John 12:25). When a man loses the shield of a good conscience, he knows that he has lost the cooperation of heavenly angels. God is not working in him. Another spirit inspires him. And to be an apostate, a traitor to the cause of God, is much more serious than death; it means the loss of eternal life.--Manuscript 87, Aug. 19, 1897. {TDG 240.4}

Mike said,

quote:

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Jesus never claimed to holy and sinless - neither should we.

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Well then, please explain why you've done exactly that:

quote:

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1. you are without sin?

Yes, of course. Only sinless people can go and sin no more.

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John, repeating what the Bible and the SOP says about born again believers is not the same thing as saying - I am sinless (when in reality my life is not in harmony with the word of God). The only time the promises of God, the promises of perfection, apply to me personally is when I am abiding in Jesus. The same thing is true of you, of all believers.

1 John
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Shelley, good question. Thank you. Here's how I see it. In Christ we are without sin; out of Christ we are with sin. At least that's how the Bible and SOP describe it. There doesn't seem to be a neutral place where we are neither with sin or without sin. "If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

Romans
8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

John
3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Luke
16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Apparently, we cannot be partly godly and partly ungodly at the same time. We cannot sin and be saved at the same time. The apostle John made this point especially clear. So did Ezekiel, and others. The plan of salvation is a thorough work. God doesn't propose to save us with our sins - today, tomorrow or at any time. Salvation is now, today, not tomorrow or some future date. To me that's good news.

1 John
3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

Ezekiel
18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: [and] not that he should return from his ways, and live?
18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
18:25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
18:26 When a righteous [man] turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
18:27 Again, when the wicked [man] turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
18:28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
18:29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn [yourselves] from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn [yourselves], and live ye.

John and Ezekiel's explanation is an all or nothing proposal. Nothing half way about it. Again, that's good news to me.

But Mike, you said above, very plainly, that you are without sin. Ellen White, a prophet of God, said that she would never say such a thing about herself, yet you have said it about yourself, openly. You still haven't addressed that.