Tom, please don't overlook addressing my post above (110011).

Thanx.

Good why?



What what purpose what? You mean why does God influence them? God influences them to do His will.



If force isn't a principle of His government, that means He doesn't use it to do anything. That's what "principle of His government" means. Not that a thing isn't used sometimes, for some specific purpose (like making people love and obey), but that it isn't used at all.



I think one needs to be careful here in how one expresses things. We need to keep in mind that force is not a principle of God's government.

Rather than say that God indirectly uses physical force (which can give a false impression that God is behind the use of force) we can more clearly say, IMO, that God protects people, and when they cause His protection to be removed, they suffer the consequences of their own actions. For example:



I think it would convey quite the wrong impression to state that God was indirectly using physical force by means of Satan in order to accomplish His will.

I wasn't sure what you believed. Now I do. That's good.


I agree. His will is for them to use physical force to ensure things play out the way He wants them to. Circumstances often force God to result to physical force.


You agreed above that He does influence others to use physical force to accomplish His will.


Was it God's will for Satan to inspire the Romans to kill the Jews? If not, what did God think was going to happen to the Jews when He withdrew His protection and gave Satan permission to (you finish this sentence to reflect what you believe)?

Of course not. Force is not a principle of God's government.





God would hardly will someone to do something which is not according to the principles of His government but only of Satan's government.



I believe God always acts in harmony with the principles of His government. He is not compelled to use the principles or methods of Satan.



No I didn't. You need to read more carefully! To say that those whom God influences to do His will use physical force does not mean that God influences them to use physical force.



Of course not.



God knows bad things happen when we reject Him, so in love He counsels us not to.

You didn't answer my question. Do you think God knew Satan would influence the Romans to kill the Jews when He withdrew His protection? To what purpose did God withdraw His protection in this case? Did Satan do anything that exceeded God's established limits? Upon what criteria did God establish said limits? And, what did God do to ensure Satan didn't exceed His limits?

God didn't withdraw His protection for a purpose. He did so because the Jews caused Him to do so.



You seem to have the idea that God purposes evil things. He doesn't. He only purposes good things. However, He permits evil things. But not for some purpose. He works out His purpose *in spite* of the evil things which He permits, but that's not at all saying the same thing that He purposes the evil.

Regarding what criteria God uses, we're not told, are we? Regarding what God does to ensure Satan does not exceed His limits, Scripture tells us God sets a hedge around those He's protecting.

Tom,

1. Do you think God knew Satan would influence the Romans to kill the Jews when He withdrew His protection?

2. Did Satan do anything that exceeded God's established limits?

3. Does God expect us to assume that whatever happens is within His established limits?

4. If so, why does God allow some horrible things to happen but not others?

Also, you wrote - "Regarding what God does to ensure Satan does not exceed His limits, Scripture tells us God sets a hedge around those He's protecting." What does this mean to you? I assume you don't think the "hedge" is literal. How do you visualize it playing out in reality?

What do you consider to be evil? Here's what the Bible says about God and evil:

Exodus
32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Deuteronomy
29:20 The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.
29:21 And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:

Joshua
23:15 Therefore it shall come to pass, [that] as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.

Judges
2:15 Whithersoever they went out, the hand of the LORD was against them for evil, as the LORD had said, and as the LORD had sworn unto them: and they were greatly distressed.

Isaiah
14:26 This [is] the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this [is] the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
14:27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul [it]? and his hand [is] stretched out, and who shall turn it back?

Isaiah
45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Ezekiel
6:10 And they shall know that I [am] the LORD, [and that] I have not said in vain that I would do this evil unto them.

Jeremiah
26:3 If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.
36:3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.

Micah
2:3 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, against this family do I devise an evil, from which ye shall not remove your necks; neither shall ye go haughtily: for this time [is] evil.

Evil are things contrary to the principles of His government, contrary to His character, contrary to what Jesus Christ revealed about God, contrary to His will.

What do you think the passages you quoted mean?