Adventist teaching on the nature of man is unscriptural in some respects. The scriptures describe man as a spirit being housed in a physical body. That reality is as much true as our physical being, and because we're spirit beings we can be one in spirit with God. It is the spiritual nature that is born again and recieves the spirit of Christ.

John was 'in the spirit' when he was given the revelation of Christ. The apostles were 'in the spirit'. The Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we're the children of God.

I agree fully with Mark and I had commented about this in the Trinity- How does our beliefs on this change our thinking? thread. What is stated in the 27 doctrine belief is contrary to scriptures.

1. It is true that Man has his own spirit that doesn't leaves his body. But this is different and seperate from the spirit of God. However, both work together.

2. Man needs the "breath" of God to live, and the Bible makes it clear that the breath(spirit) goes back to God when he dies. This "breath" of God is given to all that lives by his grace. Just because you are walking around doesn't mean you are alive though. It just means that God is keeping your form continually together and keeps all in motion while you may be wicked and cursing his name. The force maintaining all particles(protons, neutrons, quartz, and etc) together is contrary to the law of entropy. This prove there's someone that supply this force constantly and we all know that's Jesus as it is written that "He holds all things together". There's many mysterys in the physsiology of our body which again the only conclusion comes that God keeps all processes in your body in harmony.

3. The born again experience, is another dimension where we are submitting our will to his. By Faith we have eternal life.

4. God only is eternal, immortal and is Life. We are not, we can have immortality through the gift of the continual in-dwelling Spirit of God.

5. I believe that the "breath of life" is breathed via his omni-presence, the Holy Spirit. However, from reading in the 27 Doctrines, it is saying the "breath of life" is simply the life principle. What ????

To me they're saying, the "breath of life" was given only to Adam to animate his lifeless body, that it is not an on-going process? Well, this is new to me. I always understood this as an on-going process. And this statement is contrary to what the Bible teach, physic, and physiology.

I think this is what I was thinking of. Took awhile to find it:



The underlined portion is what I was most interested in.

I think I'm on the same page as teresa on this. The Lord has used metaphors to let us know how close He desires to be with us. This closeness is not a physical closeness, but a closeness based on love and common purposes.

God communicates with us through our brains, not an ethereal spirit disconnected from us physically.

Tom, for sure the brain is the control center. This is where He introduces His thoughs, His mind, His feelings, and etc... in us. It is the most effective way of opperating. It is never by force thought, and as we surrender our will, and accept His will, then .... Action. read COL 98 & 99.

However, who is holding your body together? Some non personal force with no brain? Absolutly not. Don't you realize that the Holy Spirit is continually holding your body together. Each particle is held together? Don't you realize that your body's processes is maintain by God?

Now, does your metaphor support the incarnation? When Jesus walk on this earth, the indwelling spirit was not in Him? He walk by the power of his brain in believing in the promises of Scriptures? That's how He got victory, throught the power of His brain, and depending on his brain knowledge of the love of God? not through the Father?


What's the "POWER to become sons of God " this verse is talking about? v. 13 says very clearly, the power is to be born of God. As Jesus was the incarnation of God in flesh, so are we which is called "the Mystery of God", God spirit is to incarnate in our sinful flesh. That's the only way to be born again. This is our only hope for salvation.

What you are proposing doesn't make sence to me and offer no hope for my salvation. Also, it is not holding scripture together as a whole.

At least we agree with each other that what the other is saying makes no sense. I've got no clue what you're trying to say.

Regarding how Jesus Christ overcame, if you're asking me if it involved His brain, if that's what I'm saying, yes, that's what I believe. Jesus Christ overcame by faith, which involved His making decisions, (such as the decision to exercise faith) and that involved His brain. Our overcoming also involves are brains. Without our brains, we have no way to communicate with God.

Regarding God's holding our bodies together, yet, I believe this:



I've quoted this many times. It's important that we understand God's role in holding nature together, as well as our own bodies.

However, I don't see that this has anything to do with the indwelling of the Spirit. If you are going to say that the Spirit indwells us because He holds our bodies together, then, by the same logic, He indwells animals, since He holds their bodies together as well, and He indwells inanimate objects, like planets, since He keeps them together too.



I agree with this as well, which is why Christ had to come in flesh like ours, to make this reality a possibility for us.

Repeating something I said earlier:



To me, this last sentence could just as well have said, "This is what it means to have the mind of Christ", or "this is what it means to have the Spirit's indwelling."

These are all metaphors. It is not literally true that we are clothed with a garment of righteousness. This is a metaphor. However, what was written just before is literally true:

"When we submit ourselves to Christ, the heart is united with His heart, the will is merged in His will, the mind becomes one with His mind, the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him; we live His life."

Yes, I believe God literally dwells in believers who are abiding in Jesus. God is omnipresent. I do not understand how He literally dwells in us but I believe it just the same.

does that mean He is in the tree and plant?

Here's this idea again. If you don't understand it, why do you believe it? Why wouldn't another possibility, which you could understand, be better? For example, that a metaphor is involved.

I'm seeing this idea in many contexts. It might not be a bad idea to discuss, in general terms, the concept of how inspired statements should be understood. Where you and are agreeing, again and again, is that you read certain things literally, which even you don't think make sense. The approach I take, when I see that a literal interpretation doesn't make sense, is to consider the possibility that perhaps the inspired statement shouldn't be taken literally. Rather than doing this, you seem to prefer to hold to the idea that the thing is literal, even though it doesn't make sense to you.

So there's a fundamental difference, in general, in regards to how we approach inspired statements. I'm trying to look for general principles which apply across the board, and, on the basis of those statements, understand inspired statements. As opposed to this, you prefer to look at things on a case by case basis, where principles play a secondary role at best.

Now I suppose some of the difference may just have to do with a difference in personality types and perception (i.e., seeing the forest vs. seeing the trees), but I think there are other factors involved as well.

I doubt it. Vegetation and animals do not have a soul. I suspect this makes a difference. I don't have to be a pantheist to be believe God literally dwells within me. I'm not saying this is what you are implying.