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Re: Lesson #9 - Heaven
[Re: James Saptenno]
#113749
05/29/09 05:40 AM
05/29/09 05:40 AM
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Why is there no "sea" or "ocean" in the new world? I love the ocean and the fishes, a pity if they no longer exist. Why is it not recreated? Is god afraid that his children might be drown and die?? I couldn't understand the reasoning of the author.
In His love from what ive read it seems like a "punishment" for all the people who have drowned in the oceans and seas. i think there will still be rivers and streams and im sure they will be full of marine life for us to enjoy.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Lesson #9 - Heaven
[Re: teresaq]
#113752
05/29/09 06:22 AM
05/29/09 06:22 AM
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The Orient
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Folks, this is yet another example of improper interpretation. Just like the "dogs" that won't be in heaven, according to Revelation, do not represent literal animals, the "sea" may not represent literal water.
We try to say that Revelation is a symbolic book, while at the same time claiming the symbols are literal. Why is that?
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Lesson #9 - Heaven
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#113755
05/29/09 07:13 AM
05/29/09 07:13 AM
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Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
since the new heaven and new earth isnt symbolic its rather hard to think that the sea would be symbolic, i would think, but here is what egw said:
The sea divides friends. It is a barrier between us and those whom we love. Our associations are broken up by the broad, fathomless ocean. In the new earth there will be no more sea, and there shall pass there "no galley with oars." In the past many who have loved and served God have been bound by chains to their seats in galleys, compelled to serve the purpose of cruel, hardhearted men. The Lord has looked upon their suffering in sympathy and compassion. Thank God, in the earth made new there will be no fierce torrents, no engulfing ocean, no restless, murmuring waves (MS 33, 1911).
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Lesson #9 - Heaven
[Re: teresaq]
#113762
05/29/09 11:00 AM
05/29/09 11:00 AM
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That's a good statement, Teresa. I agree with it, but do not see it in conflict with my earlier statement. First of all, "there was no more sea" must be considered in context, unless you don't mind contradictions like this: And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind. (Revelation 4:6, KJV) Secondly, the "sea" is spoken of in other places in Revelation, and it is clearly a symbol. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. (Revelation 5:13, KJV) Unless we are in Narnia, that is not a literal sea. Again, there is symbolism in the following: And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (Revelation 7:1, KJV)
And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, (Revelation 7:2, KJV)
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. (Revelation 7:3, KJV)
And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; (Revelation 8:8, KJV)
And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. (Revelation 8:9, KJV) Does the devil tempt whales and dolphins? or do people inhabit the sea? Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. (Revelation 12:12, KJV) Who is the "beast" here? And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. (Revelation 13:1, KJV) Does that beast rise out of a literal "sea"? As I understand, the "sea" represents something very important, and that would become even more important at the end of time. Nor do I see Mrs. White in contradiction with the symbolism. However, I do suppose that there will not be so much of the new earth covered in water as we have now. Consider this popular term: "sea change." What does it mean? What do "trees," "beasts," and "mountains" represent in Revelation and in other prophecies? Literal trees and beasts? I believe the "sea" represents commerce. In the days of Solomon the kingdom of Israel extended from Hamath on the north to Egypt on the south, and from the Mediterranean Sea to the river Euphrates. Through this territory ran many natural highways of the world's commerce, and caravans from distant lands were constantly passing to and fro....{PK 70.2}
...The commercial advantages of an outlet at the head of the Red Sea were developed by the construction of "a navy of ships in Ezion-geber, . . . on the shore of the Red Sea, in the land of Edom." Trained sailors from Tyre, "with the servants of Solomon," manned these vessels on voyages "to Ophir, and fetched from thence gold," and "great plenty of almug trees, and precious stones." Verse 18; 1 Kings 9:26, 28; 10:11. {PK 71.2} [Prophets and Kings (1917)] Heaven will not have commerce as we have it here. Nor will it have slave trade (galleys), nor will the waves of the economy's ups and downs cause us to fret and fear. Money will not divide friends and brethren in heaven. There will be no more "sea." Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Lesson #9 - Heaven
[Re: teresaq]
#113764
05/29/09 03:40 PM
05/29/09 03:40 PM
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I agree with teresaq in that one part can't be literal and the other symbolic, therefore, if the "no more sea" is to be considered symbolic, then "a new heaven and a new earth" would also need to be considered symbolic. As far as "no more sea" goes, the SDA Bible Commentary says,
The clause reads literally, "and the sea is not any longer," that is, the seas as we know them now will not exist in the new creation. Some have insisted that this "sea" is symbolic of peoples, nations, tongues (cf. 17:15); but if so, the heavens and the earth would necessarily be symbolic also. Here John simply affirms that the heavens, the earth, and the seas will no longer exist as we know them now (cf. PP 44).
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
since the new heaven and new earth isnt symbolic its rather hard to think that the sea would be symbolic, i would think, but here is what egw said:
The sea divides friends. It is a barrier between us and those whom we love. Our associations are broken up by the broad, fathomless ocean. In the new earth there will be no more sea, and there shall pass there "no galley with oars." In the past many who have loved and served God have been bound by chains to their seats in galleys, compelled to serve the purpose of cruel, hardhearted men. The Lord has looked upon their suffering in sympathy and compassion. Thank God, in the earth made new there will be no fierce torrents, no engulfing ocean, no restless, murmuring waves (MS 33, 1911).
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Re: Lesson #9 - Heaven
[Re: teresaq]
#113780
05/29/09 08:33 PM
05/29/09 08:33 PM
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Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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The "sea" was a symbol for evil. There are many examples of this in Scripture. For example, crossing the Red Sea, walking on water, standing on the sea of glass, the laver, etc. So it's hard to believe "there is no more sea" would not have been understood as meaning "there is no more evil" (or sin).
That doesn't preclude that physical waters will be different as well. We know from the SOP that the earth, as originally created, did not have the barren expanses of water (barren from our point of view) that we now see, so it is natural to expect the earth would return to this pre-fall form.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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