Will, in my last post I was trying to steer clear of the diet issue. I believe it is safe to say we are never going to agree on that whole question. I agree with Sister White that obeying the ten commandments includes the laws of health, which, in her inspired opinion, means adopting a vegan lifestyle. I realize you don't agree with this application, or interpretation, of her insights and counsel. So, it might be best if we put this behind us, and turn to other concerns. With this in mind, would you care to address the questions I posted above? If not, no big deal.

Tom, the reason it hurt was because I was sort of thinking that by sharing my testimony others might rejoice with me, like the lady who looked long and hard for her lost coin. I am just as happy that I have found myself in Jesus as she was about finding her coin. And when you, especially you, because I have grown fond of you, when you doubted my joy and wondered if whether or not my experience isn't more akin to the Pharisee who was blinded with self deception, well, it set me back. But I know you didn’t mean anything hurtful by telling me how it made you feel. I’m just sorry it affected you that way. Believe me, I was hoping for something entirely opposite.

When is it safe to rejoice in the Lord? Is it ever safe to feel happy because we were once lost but now we are found? Can we know now, today, this very moment, that because of Jesus we have eternal life abiding in us, and that we are heaven bound? Is it wrong to express these feelings publicly? Jesus has saved me from so many destructive habits, things and ways I used to be that are no longer the source of my grief and despair, and I am so happy, so very happy, that He has set me free, to the point where it’s hard not to shout it from the mountain tops.

I tend to be a very expressive person, wearing my feelings on my sleeves, and I have been cautioned, on more than a few occasions here on MSDAOL, for being so sensitive. But, to tell you the truth, I cannot help myself, that’s just the way I am, but I’m learning not to let my feelings get in the way. I realize my views on rebirth and perfection have made me very unpopular on this forum, most people have just given up on me, so I can see how sharing my testimony wouldn’t be well received by some. So, I guess I need to be more careful in the future.

Mike, I've grown fond of you too. I agree with a lot of what you say, but some of what you write I find deeply troubling. I've thought and prayed a great deal about how to communicate.

Again, I don't doubt that you have had a genuine conversion experience, nor that the Lord has delievered you from destructive habits. My response had/has nothing to do with that, but only with a theological theory which I find very dangerous. That is the idea that it's impossible for someone who is connected to Christ to sin (or at least knowingly sin).

I think this theory is very dangerous. If you think you are connected to Jesus, and think that in such a state you cannot sin, that leads to the very dangerous position of being able to delude yourself that you're not sinning when you are. Inspiration does not teach that one cannot sin if "connected" to Jesus, but that one need not sin. That's an important distinction.

This is also from Christ's Object Lessons, the Two Worshippers chapter:

quote:

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No outward observances can take the place of simple faith and entire renunciation of self. But no man can empty himself of self. We can only consent for Christ to accomplish the work. Then the language of the soul will be, Lord, take my heart; for I cannot give it. It is Thy property. Keep it pure, for I cannot keep it for Thee. Save me in spite of myself, my weak, unchristlike self. Mold me, fashion me, raise me into a pure and holy atmosphere, where the rich current of Thy love can flow through my soul.

It is not only at the beginning of the Christian life that this renunciation of self is to be made. At every advance step heavenward it is to be renewed. All our good works are dependent on a power outside of ourselves. Therefore there needs to be a continual reaching out of the heart after God, a continual, earnest, heartbreaking confession of sin and humbling of the soul before Him. Only by constant renunciation of self and dependence on Christ can we walk safely.

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Regarding perfection of character, I think that is something which takes place as one is transformed by beholding Christ. Focusing on sin will not acheive this desired result.

Thank you, Tom, for being my friend. I look forward to spending eternity with you in Paradise.

I agree that character development, perfecting Christlike traits of character, is something that happens on a daily basis, that we're not born again fully developed, as if there is no more room left to grow. I believe character perfection starts now and will continue throughout eternity. We will never stop "perfecting holiness in the fear of the Lord." 2 Cor 7:1. Perfecting holiness? Yes, that's right, even Jesus perfected holiness as grew from childhood to manhood.

Yes, there is a fine line between truth and error, and there is a risk of deceiving ourselves into thinking we are without fault before the throne of God, when in reality we are wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked. But believing the truth has always involved a risk. Peter said it is better not to have known the truth than to turn from it later on. In Hebrews we read, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." 10:31.

Believing the truth comes with a serious and heavy responsibility, but it shouldn't stop us from embracing it wholeheartedly. It's a fine line, for sure, but we need not fear it. In Christ we are more than conquerors, which is something we should never forget, something we should never fear. Nevertheless, we must handle it like dynamite, with extreme care and caution, because it will either kill us or save us. There is no middle ground, no neutral territory. The great controversy is a great big battle field, and our hearts and minds are hanging in the balance of victory or defeat - and the choice is ours.

Hi Mike,
If we disobey from doing His will I believe we can be in trouble, but this is something that comes over a period of time.

An example is going door to door and everyone agrees that we shold witness to people and introduce people to Christ. Yet there are many who don't go because they are either timid, afraid, or are unable to. God will not tell them that they are unable to go to heaven. God has given us all gifts and different ones at that.

Faith alone without works (a faith that works) is dead, so it would require Faith and works.. I think hookers, and drug addicts, and the mentally insane should be given the opportunity to study the Bible, and witnessed to,clothed and fed, but there are people at my church even that say "Be careful those people will find out who you are and steal from you", but these people may be serving God in a different capacity. We can;t just sit there complacent alal OnceSaved Always Saved and wait for Jesus to come. He is coming soon, so we need to share the Gospel with others, show them the truth as it is in Christ. I wonder how it will be done when God calls out His people to come out of babylon.
So I beleve because the Bible tells me so that faith & works combined is an important element in our salvation.
God Bless,
Will

Thank you, Will. I thought we both believed the same way about faith and works, but the diet issue sort of made things messy. Of the four disciplines - Bible study, prayer, fellowship and outreach - I agree with you, outreach is sorely neglected. I praise God for the obvious love of souls He has instilled in you. My gift is working with young people in the great outdoors. But I'm not so good with street people. So, I'm really happy about people like you who work well with them. God bless you, and your ministry.

Hi Mike,
I agree with you there, but the diet thing did make me upset and I think rightly so. However I do realize that in todays market, and the meat that is channeled through there for public consumption is not the best, and can't find scripture that supports the condemntation of a person for eating yogurt, or fish, or poultry, BUT I have found verses that do mention things like "be healthy", so as I search I learn, and as I learn I share.
It is awesome that you do work with youth especially in this day and age where everytihng on television is so candy coated and shiny to look appealing. This does not even include the sexual pressures imposed on them from tv programs, and movies. It is a blessing indeed that The Lord has called you to help them out in this troubling day and age.
God Bless,
Will

Just thought Id point out that not witnessing by going door to door does not mean that the person does not witness. There are many other areas and circumbstances where one can be a witness, possibly even more efficently than when walking door to door. For instance when witnessing to your coworkers whom you can build a trust relationship with.

/Thomas

Thats right Thomas. I think that everywhere you are at youare a witness, and whether at work, in the neighborhood, or with friends who are not Christian you are a witness. Good point though
God Bless,
Will

Mike, I didn't mean for my comment to be hurtful -- but to repeat, it's not appropriate to compare the Almighty to an abandoned puppy. I won't apologize for saying that, because I firmly believe that it's true. Can you find a better 'word picture' perhaps? I can appreciate the sentiments you were expressing, but can't sit still while seeing the Lord of heaven being demeaned in the process.