It would take a long time to point out things about the 144 thousand, but maybe if I put up some summery statements it can help in looking at the background to these.

The 144,000 are the answer to the question "Who shall be able to stand?"

We have the numbers 12 times 12, which in the ancient world meant the perfectly complete of the perfectly complete. There is a deepth to their expirence. They follow Jesus even when they feel it is fruitless to do so and that they are going to be lost due to rejecting the system, but they do what is right because it is right.

The part about them being virgins-- The dark ages church has put more into virginity than Yahwehism and Judiasm did. During times of war men were to consentrate on preparing for battle and thus stay away from a woman. The idea of them being virgins indicates their constant readyness for spiritual warfare.

We also have the phrase "Thousands" and the different tribes, which point to the warcamp of Israel in the book of Numbers. The listing of the tribes make theological statements. Because of Jesus being the Son of David, Judah becomes formost. Because of Jesus being the perfect priest Levi is just another tribe. Benjamin neglecting his blood brother to stay with Judah and the house of David puts Benjamin in the honnored concluding spot. Due to aposticy Dan is not listed. Due to the northern tribes sepperating from the Davidic king, Epheram is only known as Joseph and with Manasseh is not in a position of honnor, but they are still saved and included in the 144thousand.

The Hebrew word "Thousand" has had different meanings in history. It started out meaning either a family unit or a military unit. These units consisted of about 9-13 individuals, which we can round off to 10 individuals in a certan relationship is what came to mind for the word translated "Thousand" (sadly we tend not to remember this when we read Numbers and Judges). But then there was an emperor who had a large army and decided to make his military units 100 times the size of a typical military unit. This 100 people where typically there were 10 caused a 10 times 100 and that is how we got our current understanding of the number.

The 144thousand is God's army at the end of time which shows what Jesus is able to do even for the very worst generation most degraded by sin, and how he can still have people vindicating his character even from this group.

They come from all tribes, except Dan, which indicated all personality types and backgrounds.

Now what type of "thousand" is this group? Is it the early understanding of about 10 people in each group of a thousand? Or is it the larger number of 100 times 10? Nope, the thousands of the Lord's army is a vast mighty throng that no man can number, far exceding the puney army which only had a 10:1 ratio.

I hope this helps

Great Kevin! You're 2 for 2!

Once again we turn to the Old Testament for the interpetation (and not to St. Augustine). The command of not defiling with wome was talking about soldiers at war. When David tried to cover up the event with Bathsheba, David gave her husband some leave, hoping that he would enjoy being home and appear to be the father of the baby. But he refused since it would be breaking the command not to defile with women during war time.

So once again, the idea of virgins not defiled by women is symbolic of the commitment to spiritual warfare.

Kevin,

So this has more to do with being always ready than with any physical status. Othervise you are just saying the same thing as Doug, keeping away from women and fathering children.

/Thomas

Exactly!

By the way, my Grandparents came from Norway, and my Great-Grandmother was Swedish. I grew up speaking Norwegian and with pride in my Scandinavian Heratage.

Doug, do you mean my Scandinavian heratage? No that has nothing to do with Revelation 7 and 14 except that I hope many of us will be in the kingdom, and västergötland's edge says he's from Sweden.


If you mean what I wrote about the 144,000... Well, we have in the Exodus groups of thousands in perfect squares around the temple as a war camp, and we find the 144,000 in a perfect square around Jesus. We find Satan's Army taking the field in Revelation 12 and 13, and God's army, the 144,000 taking the field in Revelation 14, with the idea of not defiling with women, which comes from the Old Testament rules of war.

I hope this helps.