The great apostasy originally began in a denial of the love of God, as it is plainly revealed in the Word. Provision was then made whereby fallen man might have a powerful revelation of the love of God, and be given an opportunity to return to his allegiance to Jehovah. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). "I lay down my life for the sheep," says Christ (chap. 10:15). "The bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world" (chap. 6:51). Here is a revelation of the power mighty to save "to the uttermost." God is light and love. {UL 149.4}

Who could bring in the principles ordained by God in His rule and government to counterwork the plans of Satan and bring the world back to its loyalty? God said: I will send My Son. "God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16. This is the remedy for sin. Christ says: "Where Satan has set his throne, there shall stand My cross. Satan shall be cast out, and I will be lifted up to draw all men unto Me. I will become the center of the redeemed world. The Lord God shall be exalted. Those who are now controlled by human ambition, human passions, shall become workers for Me. Evil influences have conspired to counterwork all good. They have confederated to make men think it righteous to oppose the law of Jehovah. But My army shall meet in conflict with the satanic force. My Spirit shall combine with every heavenly agency to oppose them. I will engage every sanctified human agency in the universe. None of My agencies are to be absent. I have work for all who love Me, employment for every soul who will work under My direction. The activity of Satan's army, the danger that surrounds the human soul, calls for the energies of every worker. But no compulsion shall be exercised. Man's depravity is to be met by the love, the patience, the long-suffering of God. My work shall be to save those who are under Satan's rule." {6T 236.2}

Through Christ, God works to bring man back to his first relation to his Creator and to correct the disorganizing influences brought in by Satan. Christ alone stood unpolluted in a world of selfishness, where men would destroy a friend or a brother in order to accomplish a scheme put into their hands by Satan. Christ came to our world, clothing His divinity with humanity, that humanity might touch humanity and divinity grasp divinity. Amid the din of selfishness He could say to men: Return to your center--God. He Himself made it possible for man to do this by carrying out in this world the principles of heaven. In humanity He lived the law of God. To men in every nation, every country, every clime, He will impart heaven's choicest gifts if they will accept God as their Creator and Christ as their Redeemer. {6T 237.1}

Christ alone can do this. His gospel in the hearts and hands of His followers is the power which is to accomplish this great work. "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!" By Himself becoming subject to Satan's misrepresentations, Christ made it possible for the work of redemption to be accomplished. Thus was Satan to show himself to be the cause of disloyalty in God's universe. Thus was to be forever settled the great controversy between Christ and Satan. {6T 238.1}

Satan strengthens the destructive tendencies of man's nature. He brings in envy, jealousy, selfishness, covetousness, emulation, and strife for the highest place. Evil agencies act their part through the devising of Satan. Thus the enemy's plans, with their destructive tendencies, have been brought into the church. Christ comes with His own redeeming influence, proposing through the agency of His Spirit to impart His efficiency to men, and to employ them as His instrumentalities, laborers together with Him in seeking to draw the world back to its loyalty. {6T 238.2}

Men are bound in fellowship, in dependence, to one another. By the golden links of the chain of love they are to be bound fast to the throne of God. This can be done only by Christ's imparting to finite man the attributes which man would ever have possessed had he remained loyal and true to God. {6T 238.3}

Those who, through an intelligent understanding of the Scriptures, view the cross aright, those who truly believe in Jesus, have a sure foundation for their faith. They have that faith which works by love and purifies the soul from all its hereditary and cultivated imperfections. {6T 238.4}

M: Awesome insights. Thank you for sharing them. However, do you think they explain the outpouring of the plagues? If so, how?

t: since this thread has been derailed and hijacked almost from day one im just responding to whats being thrown out.

M: Did God limit their options to how it played out? Or, were they at liberty to do as they please? For example, could they have blessed the Jews in their rejection of Jesus and the Gospel?

T: I don't see how you could expect me to know the answer to a question like this. How would I know what God is permitting or not? I can say what He did permit, since it happened, but how could I say what He didn't permit? What would be my basis for so doing?
mm: What are the rules evil angels must abide by when God gives unrepentant sinners over to them? Are they at liberty to bless or to curse or to do whatever suits their fancy? Or, are they required to work within well defined limits which prevent them from doing as they please including whether or not they are free to bless sinners?

M: What are the rules evil angels must abide by when God gives unrepentant sinners over to them? Are they at liberty to bless or to curse or to do whatever suits their fancy? Or, are they required to work within well defined limits which prevent them from doing as they please including whether or not they are free to bless sinners?

how are we to understand this?

Psa 78:42-51:
They remembered not his hand, nor the day when he delivered them from the enemy.
How he had wrought his signs in Egypt, and his wonders in the field of Zoan:
And had turned their rivers into blood; and their floods, that they could not drink.
He sent divers sorts of flies among them, which devoured them; and frogs, which destroyed them.
He gave also their increase unto the caterpiller, and their labour unto the locust.
He destroyed their vines with hail, and their sycomore trees with frost.
He gave up their cattle also to the hail, and their flocks to hot thunderbolts.
He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.
He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence;
And smote all the firstborn in Egypt; the chief of their strength in the tabernacles of Ham:

T:This is easy. Of course not. God wants good things to happen. Even for His enemies, God desires nothing but good things.
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Of course God didn't want bad things to happen. Satan did.

A:So did God want Satan to develop and display his principles?

God sometimes causes painful things to happen, if that will be eternally beneficial.

The last sentence is interesting in reference to the paradigm you propose. Here we have Sixtus IV approving, or can we say allowing, Ferdinand II and Isabella I to do what they wanted. Furthermore, I am sure that Ferdinand and Isabella, and even Torquemada, did not go down to the dirty dungeons themselves but permitted others to do the actual work of causing pain. Are they any less guilty of the torture you speak of?

In your paradigm, isn't God in the place of Sixtus or Ferdinand or Torquemada, letting others do the dirty work?

do you truly "understand" and believe what you just proposed, my brother? or do you truly understand tom to be saying this?!?
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He didnt "make it happen". we could blame Him for not working a miracle to prevent it, as He did with the serpents, not to mention the countless times before and since that He has worked miracles to protect us from also countless unknown dangers but then i think we could justly be accused for attempting to use Him as some kind of magic genie.