HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,628
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 24
kland 13
May
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Member Spotlight
ProdigalOne
ProdigalOne
Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,185
Joined: June 2015
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
6 registered members (dedication, Karen Y, Nadi, 3 invisible), 3,396 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 51 of 91 1 2 49 50 51 52 53 90 91
Re: plagues [Re: kland] #116160
07/17/09 04:02 PM
07/17/09 04:02 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
k:That question is the whole point of the discussions about God's character. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. It's not, do as I say, not as I do.


I agree with this. I think this is very important.

For example, there's the statement from the SOP which says that all that man can know of God was revealed in the life and character of His Son. Do as I do looked to be Christ's methodology from the get go. He didn't merely teach principles, but He lived those same principles. If we simply live as Christ lived, we're golden.

Quote:
A:If you are saying that God knew there were snakes, and He removed His protection on purpose, and He knew that people would get bitten as a result, and He knew the snake bites would hurt like the dickens, and He did it anyway knowing what would happen.... Then, yes, we are saying the same thing.

k:To reduce your question down to what it really means:
Why did God create Lucifer if He knew what would happen?


I was having trouble following you at first, but then I think I got it. You're reasoning that if God is responsible for the snakes biting the Israelites, then, by the same logic, He's responsible for Satan's "bite".


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: plagues [Re: asygo] #116161
07/17/09 05:52 PM
07/17/09 05:52 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,429
Midland
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: kland
Would it be fair to make a comparison with a substitute statement?

It is wrong to believe that exactly the same rules apply to Hitler and his subjects.

(and I don't know if "receiving worship" would be considered a rule in this case)

You have lost the vast distinction between the Creator and the creature. And to make to make Hitler's relationship to his subjects analogous to God's relationship to His subjects is mind-boggling.

Furthermore, to disallow every instance that does not fit into your paradigm as irrelevant makes it very easy to accept any paradigm that suits your fancy. The trick is to find a paradigm that fits all the facts.


I think you said, no.

I was trying to be as understanding with you as I am trying with MM. A simple yes or no was what was expected -- not a commentary assumption of whether my comparison was stupid or not.

Something tells me that the terms: abstraction, polymorphism, and inheritance have not much relevance to you? (knowing the answer is important to see why the different perspectives)

Hopefully, you can see your objection to the comparison the problem of why there is a communication problem.

Re: plagues [Re: Tom] #116162
07/17/09 05:58 PM
07/17/09 05:58 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,429
Midland
Originally Posted By: Tom
Quote:
k:To reduce your question down to what it really means:
Why did God create Lucifer if He knew what would happen?


I was having trouble following you at first, but then I think I got it. You're reasoning that if God is responsible for the snakes biting the Israelites, then, by the same logic, He's responsible for Satan's "bite".


I think so....
But, in much simpler terms. He was saying if allowing, permitting was the same as doing it. I made the comparison (oh no!) that the same as creating Satan was the same as creating evil in the world.

Re: plagues [Re: kland] #116163
07/17/09 06:11 PM
07/17/09 06:11 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I think MM thinks that way. MM has said:

Quote:
I think it is obvious that God is responsible for creating a situation where sin and death was inevitable.


and

Quote:
God is the author of death.


I don't know Arnold's thoughts on this, though.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: plagues [Re: teresaq] #116171
07/17/09 07:32 PM
07/17/09 07:32 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: teresaq
M: Teresaq, thank you encouraging me to stay on topic. I am reposting the following on-topic post:

Quote:
t: The great apostasy originally began in a denial of the love of God, as it is plainly revealed in the Word. Provision was then made whereby fallen man might have a powerful revelation of the love of God, and be given an opportunity to return to his allegiance to Jehovah. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). "I lay down my life for the sheep," says Christ (chap. 10:15). "The bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world" (chap. 6:51). Here is a revelation of the power mighty to save "to the uttermost." God is light and love. {UL 149.4}

Who could bring in the principles ordained by God in His rule and government to counterwork the plans of Satan and bring the world back to its loyalty? God said: I will send My Son. "God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16. This is the remedy for sin. Christ says: "Where Satan has set his throne, there shall stand My cross. Satan shall be cast out, and I will be lifted up to draw all men unto Me. I will become the center of the redeemed world. The Lord God shall be exalted. Those who are now controlled by human ambition, human passions, shall become workers for Me. Evil influences have conspired to counterwork all good. They have confederated to make men think it righteous to oppose the law of Jehovah. But My army shall meet in conflict with the satanic force. My Spirit shall combine with every heavenly agency to oppose them. I will engage every sanctified human agency in the universe. None of My agencies are to be absent. I have work for all who love Me, employment for every soul who will work under My direction. The activity of Satan's army, the danger that surrounds the human soul, calls for the energies of every worker. But no compulsion shall be exercised. Man's depravity is to be met by the love, the patience, the long-suffering of God. My work shall be to save those who are under Satan's rule." {6T 236.2}

Through Christ, God works to bring man back to his first relation to his Creator and to correct the disorganizing influences brought in by Satan. Christ alone stood unpolluted in a world of selfishness, where men would destroy a friend or a brother in order to accomplish a scheme put into their hands by Satan. Christ came to our world, clothing His divinity with humanity, that humanity might touch humanity and divinity grasp divinity. Amid the din of selfishness He could say to men: Return to your center--God. He Himself made it possible for man to do this by carrying out in this world the principles of heaven. In humanity He lived the law of God. To men in every nation, every country, every clime, He will impart heaven's choicest gifts if they will accept God as their Creator and Christ as their Redeemer. {6T 237.1}

Christ alone can do this. His gospel in the hearts and hands of His followers is the power which is to accomplish this great work. "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!" By Himself becoming subject to Satan's misrepresentations, Christ made it possible for the work of redemption to be accomplished. Thus was Satan to show himself to be the cause of disloyalty in God's universe. Thus was to be forever settled the great controversy between Christ and Satan. {6T 238.1}

Satan strengthens the destructive tendencies of man's nature. He brings in envy, jealousy, selfishness, covetousness, emulation, and strife for the highest place. Evil agencies act their part through the devising of Satan. Thus the enemy's plans, with their destructive tendencies, have been brought into the church. Christ comes with His own redeeming influence, proposing through the agency of His Spirit to impart His efficiency to men, and to employ them as His instrumentalities, laborers together with Him in seeking to draw the world back to its loyalty. {6T 238.2}

Men are bound in fellowship, in dependence, to one another. By the golden links of the chain of love they are to be bound fast to the throne of God. This can be done only by Christ's imparting to finite man the attributes which man would ever have possessed had he remained loyal and true to God. {6T 238.3}

Those who, through an intelligent understanding of the Scriptures, view the cross aright, those who truly believe in Jesus, have a sure foundation for their faith. They have that faith which works by love and purifies the soul from all its hereditary and cultivated imperfections. {6T 238.4}

M: Awesome insights. Thank you for sharing them. However, do you think they explain the outpouring of the plagues? If so, how?

t: since this thread has been derailed and hijacked almost from day one im just responding to whats being thrown out.

M: What were you responding to, and how do the passages above speak to it?

t: from page 45 post 115995

Quote:
M: Did God limit their options to how it played out? Or, were they at liberty to do as they please? For example, could they have blessed the Jews in their rejection of Jesus and the Gospel?

T: I don't see how you could expect me to know the answer to a question like this. How would I know what God is permitting or not? I can say what He did permit, since it happened, but how could I say what He didn't permit? What would be my basis for so doing?

M: What are the rules evil angels must abide by when God gives unrepentant sinners over to them? Are they at liberty to bless or to curse or to do whatever suits their fancy? Or, are they required to work within well defined limits which prevent them from doing as they please including whether or not they are free to bless sinners?

t: since i am sure you want answers from the sop: smile ...I was informed that the inhabitants of earth had been degenerating, losing their strength and comeliness. Satan has the power of disease and death, and with every age the effects of the curse have been more visible, and the power of Satan more plainly seen. Those who lived in the days of Noah and Abraham resembled the angels in form, comeliness, and strength. But every succeeding generation have been growing weaker and more subject to disease, and their life has been of shorter duration. Satan has been learning how to annoy and enfeeble the race. {EW 184.2}

The willing subjects of Satan are faithful and active, united in one object. And although they will hate, and war with, each other, yet they will improve every opportunity to advance their common interest. But the great Commander in Heaven and earth has limited Satan's power. {4bSG 105.2}

back to the real issue that the enemy has stolen time and time again:I saw that in our journeying from place to place, he had frequently placed his evil angels in our path to cause accident which would result in our losing our lives; but holy angels were sent upon the ground to deliver. Several accidents have placed my husband and myself in great peril, and our preservation has been wonderful. I saw that we had been the special objects of Satan's attacks, because of our interest in, and connection with, the work of God. As I saw the great care God has every moment for those who love and fear him, I was inspired with confidence and trust in God, and felt reproved for my lack of faith. {4bSG 106.3}

Let me see if I am reading between the lines correctly. In answer to the following question . . .

"What are the rules evil angels must abide by when God gives unrepentant sinners over to them? Are they at liberty to bless or to curse or to do whatever suits their fancy? Or, are they required to work within well defined limits which prevent them from doing as they please including whether or not they are free to bless sinners?"

. . . I hear you saying, yes, God limits what evil angels can and cannot do. "But the great Commander in Heaven and earth has limited Satan's power." I am mostly interested in what you think this means in relation to evil angels blessing those whom God has chosen to cease blessing and has given over to Satan, namely, is he free to bless them. If so, do you know of any inspired passages describing such a case?

Re: plagues [Re: asygo] #116172
07/17/09 07:44 PM
07/17/09 07:44 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: teresaq
M: I do not believe the control evil angels are given over evil men involves the outpouring of the plagues. I believe God commands holy angels to pour out the plagues.

t: ok.

OK.

Quote:
M: I suspect you disagree. Do you? If so, why? And, do you have inspired quotes to support it? That is, where does it say in the Bible or the SOP that evil angels or evil men or whatever else will fulfill the things symbolized by the seven last plagues?

t: why do you believe i will disagree?

I didn’t believe you did. I suspected it. So, do you? Or, are you still in “study mode” and uncertain as to who or what will cause the things symbolized by the outpouring of the plagues? I’m just asking questions.

Quote:
M: Especially, do you know of any inspired passages that specifically say holy angels will not pour out the plagues?

t: Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

I’m not accusing you of believing anything. I’m asking questions.

Re: plagues [Re: teresaq] #116174
07/17/09 09:03 PM
07/17/09 09:03 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: teresaq
M: Here is the original post that started this thread. Have we addressed it yet?

Originally Posted By: teresaq
how are we to understand this?

Psa 78:42-51:
They remembered not his hand, nor the day when he delivered them from the enemy.
How he had wrought his signs in Egypt, and his wonders in the field of Zoan:
And had turned their rivers into blood; and their floods, that they could not drink.
He sent divers sorts of flies among them, which devoured them; and frogs, which destroyed them.
He gave also their increase unto the caterpiller, and their labour unto the locust.
He destroyed their vines with hail, and their sycomore trees with frost.
He gave up their cattle also to the hail, and their flocks to hot thunderbolts.
He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.
He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence;
And smote all the firstborn in Egypt; the chief of their strength in the tabernacles of Ham:

t: what did you think of the posts following it?

Not sure yet.

Quote:
t: would you like to share your understandings of it.

You highlighted the phrase "by sending evil angels among them" so I take it you're especially interested in this aspect of Psalms 78. If so, here's what Matthew Henry, the commentator, wrote about it:

"Secondly, The angels of God were the instruments employed in this execution: He sent evil angels among them, not evil in their own nature, but in respect to the errand upon which they were sent; they were destroying angels, or angels of punishment, which passed through all the land of Egypt, with orders, according to the weighed paths of God's anger, not to kill all, but the first-born only. Good angels become evil angels to sinners. Those that make the holy God their enemy must never expect the holy angels to be their friends."

Other Bible versions put verse 49 this way:

Quote:
He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, Wrath, and indignation, and trouble, A band of angels of evil. (ASV)

God was so angry and furious that he went into a rage and caused them great trouble by sending swarms of destroying angels. (CEV)

He sent the heat of His anger on them, fury and indignation and distress, a sending of angels of evils. (LITV)

He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, a band of angels of evil. (RV)

He sendeth on them the fury of His anger, Wrath, and indignation, and distress--A discharge of evil messengers. (YLT)

The following Ellen White statements make it abundantly clear that the "destroying angel", the "angel of death", the avenging angel", and the "ministers of vengeance" are titles for holy angles doing God's bidding:

Quote:
The Lord gave special directions to the Hebrews, for each family to slay a lamb and sprinkle the blood upon their door posts, that when the destroying angel should go forth upon his errand of death, the blood upon the post of the door should be to them a sign that those who were within the house were the worshipers of the true God. The angel of death passed over the houses thus designated. {LHU 31.5}

The avenging angel had visited every house among the Egyptians and had stricken with death the first-born of every family. . . But the angel of death passed over the homes of the children of Israel and did not enter there. {4T 20.5}

God has often visited the one who has taken the false oath, and even while the oath was on his lips, the destroying angel has cut him down. This was to prove a terror to evil-doers. {4bSG 43.2}

What is the seal of the living God, which is placed in the foreheads of His people? It is a mark which angels, but not human eyes, can read; for the destroying angel must see this mark of redemption. {Mar 243.5}

When the avenging angel shall pass through the land, Christ cannot say of them, "Touch them not. I have graven them upon the palms of my hands." No; of these halfhearted ones He says, "I will spew them out of my mouth. They are offensive to me" (Letter 44, 1903). {7BC 963.7}

The present is a solemn, fearful time for the church. The angels are already girded, awaiting the mandate of God to pour their vials of wrath upon the world. Destroying angels are taking up the work of vengeance; for the Spirit of God is gradually withdrawing from the world. {7BC 983.1}

[In contrast to the above mentioned angels she goes on to say] Satan is also mustering his forces of evil, going forth "unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world," to gather them under his banner, to be trained for "the battle of that great day of God Almighty." Satan is to make most powerful efforts for the mastery in the last great conflict. {7BC 983.1}

All fornicators will be outside the City of God. Already God's angels are at work in judgment, and the Spirit of God is gradually leaving the world. . . To His angels He gives the commission to execute His judgments. . . The command is, "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house." Saith God. "I will recompense their way upon their head." {TM 431.3}

The words will soon be spoken, "Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth." One of the ministers of vengeance declares. "And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because Thou hast judged thus." These heavenly beings, in executing the mandate of God, ask no questions, but do as they are bid. Jehovah of hosts, the Lord God Almighty, the just, the true, and the holy, has given them their work to do. With unswerving fidelity they go forth panoplied in pure white linen, having their breasts girded with golden girdles. And when their task is done, when the last vial of God's wrath is poured out, they return and lay their emptied vials at the feet of the Lord. {TM 432.1}

Would you agree that the following explanation (quoted above) describes the work of holy angels?

"The words will soon be spoken, "Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth."

One of the ministers of vengeance declares. "And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because Thou hast judged thus."

These heavenly beings, in executing the mandate of God, ask no questions, but do as they are bid. Jehovah of hosts, the Lord God Almighty, the just, the true, and the holy, has given them their work to do.

With unswerving fidelity they go forth panoplied in pure white linen, having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

And when their task is done, when the last vial of God's wrath is poured out, they return and lay their emptied vials at the feet of the Lord."

Re: plagues [Re: Mountain Man] #116175
07/17/09 09:05 PM
07/17/09 09:05 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
MM, what I believe is that the holy angels pour out the plagues by "releasing."

God does things by His Spirit, who, in turn, uses holy angels. One of the things these angels do is to protect us. There are scores of passages which speak of what will happen in the end times when the holy angels cease this protection, and teresa has presented quite a few of these, well over a dozen I think. I believe this is what the plagues are.

It's not that the holy angels release the evil angels to cause destruction and to the wicked, and then join them in their destruction, the two of them working hand in hand. That doesn't really make sense, does it? But the holy angels release their protection, and the evil angels cause destruction, and this is what the plagues consist of.

John related what he saw in vision, which is the holy angels pouring out vials. This represents a connection between the holy angels and the destruction that happens. And, indeed, there is a connection. But the connection is not that the holy angels cause pain and destruction (these are tools of the enemy! not a part of God's kingdom, a kingdom which doesn't use force to overcome rebellion) but rather that the holy angels "release," and then destruction comes as the protection against evil angels is discontinued.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: plagues [Re: Tom] #116176
07/17/09 09:13 PM
07/17/09 09:13 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Tom
I think MM thinks that way. MM has said:

Quote:
I think it is obvious that God is responsible for creating a situation where sin and death was inevitable.


and

Quote:
God is the author of death.


I don't know Arnold's thoughts on this, though.

Tom, here is my explanation of the quotes above (it's from #116052 this thread):

1. “God is vengeful and bloodthirsty.” God said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” I concede “bloodthirsty” was a poor choice of words. What I meant to convey was that He demands justice.

1a. “Blaming Satan for the existence of sin and death assumes Satan, and not God, is in control of sin and death.” Satan did not create FMAs, therefore, he didn’t create a situation where sin and death were inevitable. See 3 below.

2. “Throughout eternity we will praise God for punishing sinners and destroying them in the lake of fire.” True. It’s because He did what was right and righteous.

3. “I think it is obvious that God is responsible for creating a situation where sin and death was inevitable.” See quote above. DA 22.

4. “God is the author of death.” Poor choice of words. What I mean is that God chose to create FMAs in spite of knowing in advance which ones would sin and rebel and die in the lake of fire.

5. “But the fact is, He has killed (i.e., destroyed) hundreds and thousands and millions of people since the Flood, and He will kill millions and billions more in the lake of fire.” There are five different ways death and destruction has happened since the Fall.

1. God did it Himself.
2. God commands holy angels to do it.
3. God permits the forces of nature to do it.
4. God permits evil angels to do it.
5. God permits evil men to do it.

Re: plagues [Re: Tom] #116177
07/17/09 09:25 PM
07/17/09 09:25 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Tom
MM, what I believe is that the holy angels pour out the plagues by "releasing."

I'm having a hard time reinterpreting the following passages to mean holy angels will pour out the plagues by "releasing" them:

The present is a solemn, fearful time for the church. The angels are already girded, awaiting the mandate of God to pour their vials of wrath upon the world. Destroying angels are taking up the work of vengeance; for the Spirit of God is gradually withdrawing from the world. {7BC 983.1}

[In contrast to the above mentioned angels she goes on to say] Satan is also mustering his forces of evil, going forth "unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world," to gather them under his banner, to be trained for "the battle of that great day of God Almighty." Satan is to make most powerful efforts for the mastery in the last great conflict. {7BC 983.1}

All fornicators will be outside the City of God. Already God's angels are at work in judgment, and the Spirit of God is gradually leaving the world. . . To His angels He gives the commission to execute His judgments. . . The command is, "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house." Saith God. "I will recompense their way upon their head." {TM 431.3}

The words will soon be spoken, "Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth." One of the ministers of vengeance declares. "And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because Thou hast judged thus." These heavenly beings, in executing the mandate of God, ask no questions, but do as they are bid. Jehovah of hosts, the Lord God Almighty, the just, the true, and the holy, has given them their work to do. With unswerving fidelity they go forth panoplied in pure white linen, having their breasts girded with golden girdles. And when their task is done, when the last vial of God's wrath is poured out, they return and lay their emptied vials at the feet of the Lord. {TM 432.1}

Tom, do you know of any inspired passages that describe the holy angels pouring out the plagues in terms of "releasing" them? I am here asking you to post passages that specifically speak about the holy angels "releasing" the plagues. And, do you know of any inspired passages that describe evil angels causing the things symbolized in the plagues? Again, I'm asking specifically about the plagues, the ones delineated in Rev 16.

Page 51 of 91 1 2 49 50 51 52 53 90 91

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 05/06/24 12:18 PM
The Gospel According To John
by dedication. 05/05/24 05:39 AM
2nd Quarter 2024 The Great Controversy
by dedication. 05/03/24 02:55 AM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Rick H. 04/26/24 06:05 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: The Sunday Law
by dedication. 04/22/24 05:15 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: Part Two
by TruthinTypes. 04/21/24 11:14 PM
Where is the crises with Climate mandates?
by dedication. 04/21/24 09:25 PM
Iran strikes Israel as War Expands
by dedication. 04/21/24 05:07 PM
What Happens at the End.
by Rick H. 04/20/24 11:39 AM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 04/18/24 05:51 PM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:24 PM
Chinese Revival?
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 06:12 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
What Does EGW Say About Ordination?
by dedication. 05/06/24 02:37 PM
Who is the AntiChrist? (Identifying Him)
by Rick H. 05/06/24 12:33 PM
Are we seeing a outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
by Rick H. 05/06/24 12:29 PM
A Second American Civil War?
by Rick H. 05/06/24 12:27 PM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by kland. 05/06/24 10:32 AM
When Does Satan Impersonate Christ?
by Rick H. 05/03/24 10:09 AM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by dedication. 05/02/24 08:58 PM
The Papacy And The American Election
by Rick H. 04/30/24 09:34 AM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:19 AM
A.I. - The New God?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:34 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 07:10 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1