Would you explain this please?

revelation 11:1-13 has already happened, that it may have a dual ap is a possibility. she says that history will repeat itself. i read that differently than as a "dual" ap.

but, rev 11:14-19 has not happened yet, so cannot have a dual ap. it is quite possible that she simply meant we need to study them in the light that the second woe is past and that we should be attentive to the third woe coming.

putting all the bible texts together that relate to this period would put this in perspective, i believe. it is possible this is what she was refering to:Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
Rev 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Comment: In the above passage two things are remarkable: One is the implication that the vision applies to the very end of time primarily and the second is that we will need the spirit of Daniel to stand at that time.

The vision that chapter 10 introduces -(found in chapters 11 and 12) contains the most detailed information on the abomination of desolation, the warning that Christ has told us to read and understand. “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains.” Matthew 24:15.

Regarding that warning Ellen White says:

It seems to me that she is looking to apply principles from a given prophecy to other situations. That is, she appears to me to have thunk more in terms of "the principles of this prophecy has other applications" than "this prophecy has multiple fulfillments."

I'm curious as to the thoughts of others on this thread regarding this.

Actually, it seems to me in general that the real value in the prophecy is ferreting out the principle involved. We know the whole Bible is about Christ, but how that is the case isn't always right on the surface.

Well, friends, you be the judge. In the passages quoted above and in the ones following, is Ellen White saying study the principles of these prophecies; the details of them have no future application? Or, is she saying study the prophecies themselves in detail and from that you will understand the principles? Isn’t it the latter? In the passages I’ve quoted she’s directed our attention to these things and urged that we study them in detail. Why? Because God reveals Himself in history, past and future. If we don't see His future work of judgment clearly, which all the prophets have born witness to starting with Enoch, we won't take on the attributes of His character.

Ellen White’s burden and hopefully mine and yours is character development. We so much need to eat that little prophetic book that’s open in the hand of the Mighty Angel so that we can become like Him. Every Christian, and the devil to, is familiar with the claim that God is love. But it’s in reviewing His great acts in the past and in the future in detail, meditating on them and assimilating them into our souls that our characters are transformed into His image.

And I feel I should add this warning: One who teaches that God never brings judgment but that judgment is only a matter of cause and effect, is not teaching about the God of the Bible because we know that God Himself will 'bring every work into judgment'. Mercy and justice are active divine principles that are at the foundation of God's throne, of heaven's government of universal order and of love. These two principles – mercy and justice - are far more than being mere cause and effect. They are the active principles of heaven. They often work in harmony with the laws of cause and effect, so that on the surface it may seem that natural laws govern. But the active principles that under gird all that transpires in the universe are these two – mercy and justice - and both of these issue from the Divine throne. These are Biblical facts. Anyone who swerves from them and suggests that God does not personally hold intelligent beings accountable, that God does not personally reward both the righteous and the wicked according to their works, however well intended, is undermining the picture of the character of God presented clearly in sacred history and recorded accurately in Scripture.

To quote you, I don't think it's either or. I was commenting on Ellen White's mindset. It seems to me her thinking was more along the lines of applying principles of certain prophecies to other circumstances as opposed to saying "this prophecy of Daniel (or Revelation) has multiple fulfillments. First there's (pick some event or year), then there's this (event or year) yet to come as well.

Regarding "Or, is she saying study the prophecies themselves in detail and from that you will understand the principles?" this question seems out of place as an "or" question. Certainly one can choose to study the prophecies in detail without having to exclude oneself from also being able to apply its principles, right? That is, it's not as if one much choose to do one thing or the other.

im not seeing the connection between the principles of the prophecies and possible future applications.

all the sites ive come across with future applications seemed to be more about trying to work out to the last detail what will happen. but i cant remember seeing anything about Jesus life, the difference between what He was and how we are

it seems to me that we can study the ongoing judgment, im assuming you mean the investigative judgment, but i havent seen where that helps us take on the attributes of Christ. ellen white says to study Christs life, isnt that what would make us judgment and heaven-ready?

if you could explain a little more how believing there are future applications could make us more Christlike?

i think im asking also, that you didnt mean to give the impression that we are to disregard the life of Christ and study the judgments(?) of the ot, instead?

Regarding the comments about judgment, the idea seems to be that if God does not do something beyond cause and effect, then He is not personally holding people accountable. But the Biblical principle is "What you sow, so shall you reap." (cause and effect).

The SOP puts it like this:



Both the righteous and the wicked "receive the results of their own choice." This is the principle of sowing and reaping. This is cause and effect.

It sounds as if it's being implied that God can only hold people to be personally responsible for their actions by not allowing them to receive the principles of their choice, or not allowing them to reap what they have sown (cause and effect).

isnt the reward for the righteous eternal life?

and the reward for the lost eternal death?

Colin, "nothing substantially new" is the issue. Yes the studies continue in circles.

The repentance is corporate yes, but not Corporate. The body of true believers will all individually repent; Silver Springs - you are correct, no likelihood.
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