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The Relation Between Faith and Works #117591
08/12/09 10:39 PM
08/12/09 10:39 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
What's the relationship between faith and works? Before exploring the answer to this question, let's consider the words we will be looking at. First of all, notice the Bible uses "works" in both a positive and negative sense. In a positive sense, it is equivalent to obedience to the law. In a negative sense, it means things one does to try to earn favor with God. We will be using it in the positive sense.

The Bible also uses "faith" in a negative sense. In a negative sense, it is used as a counterfeit for true faith, a "faith" devoid of works. Similarly "believe" can be used in a negative sense. For example, "The devils believe and tremble." "Believe" here is not used in the same sense that Jesus used it when He said, "Whosoever believes in Me shall not perish." We will be using it in the positive sense. We also note that as "works" and "obey" express the same idea in two ways (one as a noun, the other as a verb), so too "faith" and "believe" express the same idea in two ways (one as a noun, the other as a verb).

When Nicodemus went to see Jesus, Jesus explained to him the way of salvation. To be saved, Nicodemus must believe in Him. The distinction between the sheep and the goats was made clear. The sheep are those who believe in Him. They shall never perish. The goats are those who "believe not." They are already condemned.

In another occasion, when Jesus was asked how to obtain eternal life, He responded, "Obey the commandments." Was Jesus mistaken? Did He not know that the way to eternal life is by believing in Him? Why did He say one thing in one place and something else in another?

Jesus is not the only one who does this! The great apostle Paul, who so strongly and clearly teaches that justification is by faith alone in Jesus Christ, tells us "not the hearers of the law, but the doers of the law will be justified." John also, whose pen brought us the truth that those who believe in Christ "shall not perish" tells us, "Blessed are they that keep His commandments, for they shall have a right to the tree of life and enter into the gates of the city." (Rev. 22:14) The distinction between the sheep and the goats is made clear. The sheep are those who obey. The goats are those who don't.

Is it a coincidence that these groups are the same? That is, that those who believe are the same as those who obey, and those who "believe not" are those who do not obey? Not at all!

It is often said that faith leads to obedience, but the relationship between faith and obedience is much closer than that. Those who believe, obey. And those who obey, believe. You can not have one without the other. Whatever is not of faith is sin. Sin is transgression of the law, or disobedience. So whatever is not of faith is disobedience. Without faith it is impossible to please God. The law of God comprises those things which please God. It is "the whole duty of man." Without faith, it is impossible to obey the law of God. With faith, it is impossible not to.

When one believes in Christ, the law is written in the heart and in the mind. This is where obedience begins. As long as the law is something outside of man, something external he tries to do, his failure is inevitable. But when Christ, of whom it is written, "I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart." dwells within, then the law is no longer something external. It is written in our hearts by the living Christ, who dwells in the heart by faith.

The law has an internal element to it. Jesus taught this in the sermon on the mount (Matthew 5, 6, 7). The law can be disobeyed by a glance, by a thought. In fact, one commandment, "Thou shall not covet" is only internal. One must be born again to keep it. One needs the mind of Christ.

Just as the law has an internal element to it, faith has an external element. Faith works by love (Galatians 5:6).

So what is the relationship of faith and works? They are two expressions of the same process, like sin and death. As the sting of death is sin, the sting of works is faith. As sin has death wrapped within, faith has works wrapped within. Faith works.

So when Jesus told the man who inquired of Him to obey the law if He wanted to obtain eternal life, He was right! (How could He not be?) Implicit within this obedience is faith. James expresses the same idea when he writes that Abraham was justified by works.

Faith looks at the process starting from within, and proceeds without. A heart appreciation of the love of God; a grateful, appreciating heart expresses itself in works of obedience. (e.g. Mary Magdalene's expression of faith at the feast at Simon's house). Obedience to the law looks at the process from another perspective. It presupposes the existence of faith, which purifies the motives and cleanses the inner being by bringing Christ to dwell within.

Why is it important to understand how closely faith and works are interwoven? We may come to incorrect conclusions when we consider our own lives and see a lack of works (or no lack of sin). We may be tempted to believe the solution is more works, to try harder. However, if we understand that faith and works cannot be separated, we will be led to understand the true problem — unbelief. If we further understand faith as a heart appreciation of the love of God, especially as revealed at the cross, a lack of works in our lives will drive us to where we need to go: the cross.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: The Relation Between Faith and Works [Re: Tom] #117596
08/13/09 12:37 AM
08/13/09 12:37 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Interesting Tom.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: The Relation Between Faith and Works [Re: vastergotland] #117597
08/13/09 12:39 AM
08/13/09 12:39 AM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
thx


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: The Relation Between Faith and Works [Re: Tom] #117602
08/13/09 03:09 AM
08/13/09 03:09 AM
teresaq  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Quote:
What's the relationship between faith and works? Before exploring the answer to this question, let's consider the words we will be looking at. First of all, notice the Bible uses "works" in both a positive and negative sense.

In a positive sense, it is equivalent to obedience to the law.

In a negative sense, it means things one does to try to earn favor with God. We will be using it in the positive sense.

The Bible also uses "faith" in a negative sense.

In a negative sense, it is used as a counterfeit for true faith,

a "faith" devoid of works.

Similarly "believe" can be used in a negative sense. For example, "The devils believe and tremble." "Believe" here is not used in the same sense that Jesus used it when He said, "Whosoever believes in Me shall not perish." We will be using it in the positive sense. We also note that as "works" and "obey" express the same idea in two ways (one as a noun, the other as a verb), so too "faith" and "believe" express the same idea in two ways (one as a noun, the other as a verb).
i think this is where we get confused. i think it is also where we take one extreme or the other. some of us go back and forth trying to figure out how it works in ones life, in reality and not just theory. smile


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: The Relation Between Faith and Works [Re: teresaq] #117677
08/15/09 01:31 PM
08/15/09 01:31 PM
G
gordonb1  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec
Hi Tom,

The most important element is love.

"Love is the fulfilling of the law." Romans 13:10.

Belief without love is worthless head knowledge - dung - for we cannot be saved without agape love. If we would be born again, our nature will be changed and we shall hate our former life of dead works and live the life of Christ. This new life will overflow with works as did Christ's life, and Paul, etc.

Works which spring from the love of Christ who dwells within, will never tire us, but continue for eternity.

Works based on the letter will grind us to powder.

A transformed nature will change the fruit. A different tree.
_________

Re: The Relation Between Faith and Works [Re: gordonb1] #117682
08/15/09 09:16 PM
08/15/09 09:16 PM
teresaq  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
im curious as to how others read this:

Not by painful struggles or wearisome toil,

not by gift or sacrifice,

is righteousness obtained;

but it is freely given to every soul who hungers and thirsts to receive it.

"Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat, . . . without money and without price." "Their righteousness is of Me, saith the Lord," and, "This is His name whereby He shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness." Isaiah 55:1; 54:17; Jeremiah 23:6. {MB 18.2}

Quote:
As we need food to sustain our physical strength, so do we need Christ, the Bread from heaven, to sustain spiritual life and impart strength to work the works of God. As the body is continually receiving the nourishment that sustains life and vigor, so the soul must be constantly communing with Christ, submitting to Him and depending wholly upon Him. {MB 19.1}


i came across this some time ago. are we limited as to how much we can see of Christ, His goodness, purity, etc.,? wouldnt that impact just how Christlike we might be? what i mean is, if i find "turning the other cheek" repulsive, for example, doesnt that prevent spiritual growth?

As we study the life of Christ,

talk of Him,

become more and more able to behold Him;

as we avail ourselves of His grace, and receive the blessings He proffers us, we shall have something with which to help others....{ST, August 12, 1908 par. 11}

tom, if im heading off-topic, we can move this.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: The Relation Between Faith and Works [Re: teresaq] #117688
08/16/09 12:04 AM
08/16/09 12:04 AM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Suppose it were possible for man to do right simply that he might gain heaven. That very desire cherished persistently and thoughtlessly, when so many others are going down to death, would itself be selfishness and sin. Jesus Christ gave up heaven, accounting it not a thing to be held fast when man was lost. Suppose it were possible that one should do right for fear of hell; that at best would be a species of cowardice, that dare not go where it believed so many others were going. All this would be but an external righteousness, a making clean of the outside of the cup and the platter. The real principle of righteousness, which is love itself, would be lacking, and so there would be none of God’s righteousness, but only self-righteousness, which is as filthy rags in his sight...

Let it be remembered that love of right and love God are one and the same, for in the conception of all true men God is the embodiment of the supremely right, the supremely good. If, then, the love of God is the very soul and substance of all righteousness, how shall we love him?
Better ask, Why, when he is the one altogether lovely, do we love so little? Why so much cold philosophy and so little warm heart religion? ...

But says one, “How shall I love God? I have tried and tried.” Poor soul! Try no longer. Love does not come in that way. It is not pushed out from within by any sort of resolution; it is drawn out from without, by the sight of that which is lovely and lovable. Stop; cease thy struggling and trying; look at Him as revealed in his work and his word....

Yes, to know the love of God is to be filled with his fullness, for God is love. All goodness, all righteousness is love, and love is born of love, the human of the divine; so the all-important thing to know is that God is love. To know this is life eternal.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: The Relation Between Faith and Works [Re: Tom] #117689
08/16/09 12:07 AM
08/16/09 12:07 AM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
gordon, your post made me think of some things from "God is Love" (by George Fifield), which I quoted.

I think thinking in terms of love is a good way to consider things. Sometimes when we think of theological concepts, it gets confusing. If we consider that God is love, and our job is to love Him and love others, and we are powerless to do this of ourselves, but by love, love can be awakened, these may be easier concepts to deal with.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

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