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History of Nicea
#118331
08/28/09 11:10 PM
08/28/09 11:10 PM
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OP
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These scriptures are very explicit in predicting a great apostasy in the church, the beginning of which was already existing in Paul's day. It is not enough, therefore, to trace a doctrine or practice back almost or even quite to the days of the apostles; for great errors had their rise in that very period. The real question is, Does such a doctrine owe its origin to the Bible? The Roman Catholic Church holds many doctrines which are very ancient, and yet are wholly contrary to the Bible. {1904 GIB, CHS 81.1}
According to the best Protestant authors, what was the character of the religious changes occurring during the second and third centuries, and what credence should we give to the so-called Christian Fathers? {1904 GIB, CHS 81.3}
"From Adrian [A. D. 117] to Justinian.... few institutions, either human or divine, were permitted to stand on their former basis."-Gibbon's Decline and Pall of the Roman Empire, chap. 44, par. 7. {1904 GIB, CHS 82.1}
Says Robinson, the Baptist historian: {1904 GIB, CHS 82.2} "Toward the latter end of the second century, most of the churches assumed a new form, the first simplicity disappeared, and insensibly, as the old disciples retired to their graves, their children, along with new converts, both Jews and Gentiles, came forward and new-modeled the cause. "-Ecclesiastes Researches, chap. 6, page 51, Edition 1792. {1904 GIB, CHS 82.3}
Says Mr. Bower, in his History of the Popes {1904 GIB, CHS 82.4} "To avoid being imposed upon, we ought to treat tradition as we do a notorious . . . liar, to whom we give no credit unless what he says is confirmed to us by some person of undoubted veracity. . . . False and lying traditions are of an early date, and the greatest men have, out of a pious credulity, suffered themselves to be imposed upon by them."-Volume 1, Page 1, Philadelphia Edition 1847. {1904 GIB, CHS 82.5} Dr. Adam Clarke uses the following language concerning the Fathers: {1904 GIB, CHS 82.6}
"We should take heed how we quote the Fathers in proof of the doctrines of the gospel, because he who knows them best, knows that on many of those subjects they blow hot and cold."-Autobiography of Adam Clarke, p. 134. {1904 GIB, CHS 82.7}
Martin Luther says: {1904 GIB, CHS 82.8} "When God's word is by the Fathers expounded, constructed, and glossed, then in my judgment it is even like unto one that strains milk through a coal sack, which must needs spoil the milk and make it black. Even so, likewise, God's word of itself is sufficiently pure, clean, bright, and clear; but through the doctrines, books, and writings of the Fathers, it is very surely darkened, falsified, and spoiled."-Table Talk, pages 2-8. {1904 GIB, CHS 82.9}
Says Du Pin, one of the most celebrated and reliable of the Catholic historians: {1904 GIB, CHS 82.10} "It is a surprising thing to consider how many spurious books we find in antiquity, nay, even in the first ages of the church!" {1904 GIB, CHS 82.11}
Dr. Clarke says again of the Fathers, in his comments on Proverbs 8: {1904 GIB, CHS 83.1} "But of these we may safely state that there is not a truth in the most orthodox creed that cannot be proved by their authority, nor a heresy that has disgraced the Roman Church, that may not challenge them as its abettors. In points of doctrine, their authority is, with me, nothing. The word of God alone contains my creed." {1904 GIB, CHS 83.2} We could multiply statements of this kind from eminent authors almost ad infinitum. We have introduced them simply to show how unreliable for authority on religious duties these Fathers are, and what an age of corruption was that portion of the historical field we are considering. Our only safety is to take the Bible alone as authority in matters of religion. By it Paul says the man of God may be "thoroughly furnished unto all good works." {1904 GIB, CHS 83.3}
It is in such an age as this, and from such authorities as these Fathers, that the principal evidence of a change of the Sabbath is derived. The ante-Nicean Fathers are those Christian writers who flourished after the time of the apostles and before the Council of Nicea, AD. 325. As we have seen, the best of authorities, like Dr. Clarke, declare that the Fathers sustain the heresies of the Roman Church, as well as many of the essential truths of the gospel. In short, they lived in that age of transition from the pure truths of the word of God to that great system of corruption which developed into Roman Catholicism. {1904 GIB, CHS 83.4}
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: History of Nicea
[Re: teresaq]
#118402
08/30/09 09:27 AM
08/30/09 09:27 AM
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Active Member 2011
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Which source is this? It is clearly not the christian service book, which isnt an original source anyhow but only a clipbook or antology. And the 1904 GIB?
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: History of Nicea
[Re: vastergotland]
#118415
08/30/09 05:54 PM
08/30/09 05:54 PM
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OP
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( 1904 GIB, CHS) is the code for the book below. The Change of the Sabbath Was It by Divine or Human Authority? by George I. ButlerSouthern Publishing Association Nashville, Tennessee, 1904 the sources for the actual comments in the post are given and easily verifiable. i believe ccel would have the historian sources but i might be mistaken. http://www.ccel.org/i know gibbons decline and fall of rome can be downloaded a few places.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: History of Nicea
[Re: teresaq]
#118429
08/30/09 08:28 PM
08/30/09 08:28 PM
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Active Member 2011
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If these quotes are the bulk of the argument, I think this author has a rather simplistic view of the world. Things on the floor rarely are as clean and simple as they may look through specific concern glases on the drawing board.
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: History of Nicea
[Re: vastergotland]
#118436
08/30/09 10:26 PM
08/30/09 10:26 PM
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OP
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that is a very vague and generalalized statement that seems more designed just to sweep it under the carpet then anything else.
what exactly are you referring to and what are you taking issue with?
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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