I came across this in one of the sites, now does this encompass all the Pillars of Adventism, what are your thoughts...

"... The five main pillars of Adventism are these:
1.) Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour from sin [Gospel Revelation 14:6-12]
2.) Jesus Christ as Great High Priest in His most holy Sanctuary Temple in heaven.
3.) Jesus Christ and His own holy day of worship
4.) Jesus Christ and His advent to come and reign in power and glory to end sin.
5.) Jesus Christ and eschatology, the apocalyptic prophecies about the endtime.

Here is SOP on the subject, does anyone have any other quotes...

The Sabbath~
There are the main pillars of our faith, subjects which are of vital interest, the Sabbath, the keeping of the commandments of God. ...{CW 77.1}

The Sanctuary~
As the great pillars of our faith have been presented, the Holy Spirit has borne witness to them, and especially is this so regarding the truths of the sanctuary question. Over and over again the Holy Spirit has in a marked manner endorsed the preaching of this doctrine. But today, as in the past, some will be led to form new theories and to deny the truths upon which the Spirit of God has placed His approval.--Manuscript 125, 1907. {Ev 224.2}

The Three Angels Messages - Revelation 14~
What influence is it would lead men at this stage of our history to work in an underhand, powerful way to tear down the foundation of our faith--the foundation that was laid at the beginning of our work by prayerful study of the Word and by revelation? Upon this foundation we have been building for the past fifty years. Do you wonder that when I see the beginning of a work that would remove some of the pillars of our faith, I have something to say? I must obey the command, "Meet it!" . . . {1SM 207.3}
I must bear the messages of warning that God gives me to bear, and then leave with the Lord the results. I must now present the matter in all its bearings; for the people of God must not be despoiled. {1SM 208.1}
We are God's commandment-keeping people. For the past fifty years every phase of heresy has been brought to bear upon us, to becloud our minds regarding the teaching of the Word--especially concerning the ministration of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary, and the message of Heaven for these last days, as given by the angels of the fourteenth chapter of Revelation. Messages of every order and kind have been urged upon Seventh-day Adventists, to take the place of the truth which, point by point, has been sought out by prayerful study, and testified to by the miracle-working power of the Lord. But the waymarks which have made us what we are, are to be preserved, and they will be preserved, as God has signified through His Word and the testimony of His Spirit. He calls upon us to hold firmly, with the grip of faith, to the fundamental principles that are based upon unquestionable authority. {1SM 208.2}

The Personality of God or Christ~
Those who seek to remove the old landmarks are not holding fast; they are not remembering how they have received and heard. Those who try to bring in theories that would remove the pillars of our faith concerning the sanctuary or concerning the personality of God or of Christ, are working as blind men. They are seeking to bring in uncertainties and to set the people of God adrift without an anchor. {MR760 9.5}

The pillars of the Christian faith:

"Infidelity prevails to an alarming extent, not in the world only, but in the church. Many have come to deny doctrines which are the very pillars of the Christian faith. The great facts of creation as presented by the inspired writers, the fall of man, the atonement, the perpetuity of the law--these all are practically rejected by a large share of the professedly Christian world. Thousands who pride themselves on their knowledge regard it as an evidence of weakness to place implicit confidence in the Bible, and a proof of learning to cavil at the Scriptures and to spiritualize and explain away their most important truths." {PK 625.2}

I believe "pillars" and "landmarks" are synonymous.

"Then there will be a removing of the landmarks, and an attempt to tear down the pillars of our faith." {RH, December 13, 1892 par. 2}

"Spurious scientific theories are coming in as a thief in the night, stealing away the landmarks and undermining the pillars of our faith." {RH, April 14, 1903 par. 27}

If this is so, the most encompassing list would be the following one:

"The passing of the time in 1844 was a period of great events, opening to our astonished eyes the cleansing of the sanctuary transpiring in heaven, and having decided relation to God's people upon the earth, [also] the first and second angels' messages and the third, unfurling the banner on which was inscribed, "The commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." One of the landmarks under this message was the temple of God, seen by His truth-loving people in heaven, and the ark containing the law of God. The light of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment flashed its strong rays in the pathway of the transgressors of God's law. The nonimmortality of the wicked is an old landmark. I can call to mind nothing more that can come under the head of the old landmarks. All this cry about changing the old landmarks is all imaginary." {CW 30.2}

There was a short thread on this a few years back. Here it is: Pillars/Landmarks

My list from the thread looks different, but I think they are fundamentally equivalent.

Well when I went to do a study, I was amazed that I could not find hardly any material on any of the churches sites, no outlines of the foundations, no historical background on how we received the specific 'pillars'. So I thought well, let me just ask, and you would be surprised at some of the replies and answers I came across.....

Well lets compare from the previous thread I see you have:
"..I see here a very short list of landmarks:
1.cleansing of the sanctuary

2.three angels' messages

3.commandments of God

4.faith of Jesus

5.temple of God in heaven

6.Sabbath

7.nonimmortality of the wicked...."

Everyone seems to agree there are seven, but which seven, here is one of the more complete lists which we can compare:

RBF (I would say this is Righteousness by Faith)
SOP (This is easy, Spirit of Prophecy)
victory over sin (Justification/Sanctification?)
State of the Dead (I see this one a lot and 'nonimmortality')
health message (I think this is a unique pillar)
Law 10C (Sabbath) (Is this 2 or correct combined?)
Sanctuary (This is the only one I consistently see on all the lists.....)

I believe the expanded view of the pillars is the 28 fundamental beliefs. Not one of the 28 can be eliminated without compromising the message.

Yes, but Adventism brought certain truths to the forefront which the Reformation had not being able to, or was not revealed to it. These are the Pillars of Adventism while the 28 fundamental beliefs is more of a institutional declaration.

Richard, perhaps I'm missing the point because I see no difference between the pillars of Adventism and the 28 fundamental beliefs of Adventism. What I am missing here? Please help me understand your point. Thank you.

I think he means, besides the beliefs we have in common with other churches, there is a set of truths which led to the formation of the SDA Church as a distinct church - these specific truths would be the "pillars."
According to our pioneers, Adventism began with the proclamation of the first angel's message, in 1840. The second angel, with the proclamation of the fall of Babylon, brought them "to the 7th month, 1844." After this the third angel's message began to be proclaimed. On the basis of the three angels' messages, SDAs would see themselves as people with a prophetic origin. (See Knight, Joseph Bates: Real Founder os SDAism, p. 143-146.
The three angels' messages also put in a chronological sequence some of the main doctrinary components of SDAism. The preaching "the hour of His judgment is come" (Rev. 14:7) led the way to the establishment of the investigative judgment. A corolary of this judgment was the conditional immortality, for if the dead received their reward at death there would be no need for an investigative judgment. The proclamation of the "commandments of God" (Rev. 14:12) by the third angel was understood as emphasizing the perpetuity of the law and the Sabbath. Also, the connection between the law/sabbath and the sanctuary is seen in Rev. 11:19.
The pillars could also include the second coming of Christ, for which the third angel's message prepares the way, and the prophetic gift.

This is analyzed in detail in Alberto Timm's Ph.D. Thesis, "The Sanctuary and the Three Angels' Messages, 1844-1863: Integrating Factors in the Development of Seventh-day Adventist Doctrines" (AU, 1995).

Seems to me the only difference between us and the rest of Christendom is our understanding of 1844 and the MOB. Did I miss something? Is there something else we are the only church who believes?

You sound almost disappointed that there are Christians who are not adventist?

Not at all. Do you agree Adventists have doctrines no one else has?

Adventism has an unique angle on a couple of doctrines, is true. Do you agree that this does not make Adventists superior in any way that carries any weight?

What is MOB?
This is the only difference but, as I said, the sanctuary truth is linked to other truths that are not generally emphasized by other churches; so there was a rediscovering of these truths, and the truths rediscovered, together, made the SDA Church a distinct church. No other church has all those truths together.

MOB = Mark of the Beast.

Our understanding of righteousness by faith, or, at least, the message of righteousness by faith which God sent to us through the 1888 messengers, is different than that of evangelical Christianity.

Another difference is the emphasis on God's character:



I've seen very little of this emphasis in Evangelical Christianity.

Although the rediscovering of RBF came later (1888), when the church was already organized, it is included in the three angels' messages, so it is a pillar.
As to God's character, I think it's not specified as a pillar or waymark, but it is intermingled with all the aspects of our faith, and with the several waymarks.

P.S. Thank you. English is fond of abbreviations.

I was bringing out differences between SDAism and non-SDA's include the teaching of rbf which the 1888 messengers brought, plus the SDA emphasis on the character of God (which should be much greater than it is, but, even so, is much greater than what I've seen in Evangelical Christianity).

It should be made clear that the message which God sent us in 1888 was not simply the Evangelical message of righteousness by faith.

I agree.

Actually, I believe the "unique angle" is critical. When human probation closes, anyone who refuses to comply with them will be destroyed by the brightness of Jesus' coming.

Right. They believe God justifies sinners in spite of their sinful habits and practices; whereas, we believe God justifies sinners when He sets them free from their sinful habits and practices.

Rosangela said "No other church has all those truths together." Your clarification here basically states "there is no other church".

Thomas, no other church has all the truth necessary to be translated alive when Jesus arrives. Those who reject the truth will be destroyed when Jesus arrives.

And how is that different from my preceding post?

Not sure. What do you mean?

How is "Rosangela said "No other church has all those truths together." Your clarification here basically states "there is no other church"." different from "Thomas, no other church has all the truth necessary to be translated alive when Jesus arrives. Those who reject the truth will be destroyed when Jesus arrives."?

Saying that "there is no other church", or "there is only the sda church" seems to me exactly the same as saying that "everyone who does not subscribe to the sda distinctive doctrines (perhaps even a specific brand of sda distinctive doctrines?) will meet the same end as the worst infidel". But you seem reluctant to agree. Can you explain why?

"No other church has all the truth necessary to be translated alive when Jesus arrives. Those who reject the truth will be destroyed when Jesus arrives."

Please note that I'm talking about a very specific point in time, namely, when probation closes. Those who hear and refuse to heed the final warning message will be destroyed when Jesus arrives. During the closing scenes of Earth's history only SDAs will be proclaiming the final warning message. Do you agree?

PS - Between now and then people who die living up to the light they have will be resurrected and taken to heaven even if they were not living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. But when probation closes no one will be ignorant of the truth. All will make a conscious, informed decision to obey or not to obey the truth. Each will be rewarded accordingly.

I do not agree that someone who dies 1 week, 1 month, 1 year or 1000 years before probation closes will have a different measure than one who dies one day after. The troubles that Gods people go through will be different in kind and intensity from one time to another but the strength to keep the believer is the same today, the hour probation closes, just as it has been ever since God sought Adam in the garden that fateful day long ago.

It is my view that SDAs can only reach the position where the above scenario can be played out through finally surrendering the last traces of "closed door" error from the first decade of this denomination. SDAs can only do what you describe above when we realize that we are NOT the privileged 144000 who through "secret knowledge" and an effort that no one else managed to live up to could claim a place among "the remnant". SDAs can only serve the world when SDAs swallow our pride and follow the example of our Lord who did not regard the glories of heaven an excuse not to humble Himself and become a baby in what we would today call "an godforsaken outback" as far away from the limelight as you could be.

Further, to borrow a picture from Paul, Adventists may be the mouth, but if the whole body is a mouth, how will it hear? Adventists may be the feet, but if the whole body is a foot, how will it reach out?

19And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20But now are they many members, yet but one body.

22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Paul writes this about the different functions but I think it has something to say to a denominational situation aswell, not least after this introduction:
12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Thomas, do you think Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopal, et cetera beliefs represent the truth necessary to be translated alive? Do you think people will be translated alive irrespective of the truth? If so, on what basis will they be translated alive? Or, do you think having the truth is necessary to be translated alive?

PS - I believe people who live up to the truth they received will be resurrected and taken to heaven. However, being translated alive when Jesus arrives is an altogether different deal. Only those who have the seal of God will be translated alive. Those who rejected the seal of God and received the mark of the beast will be destroyed when Jesus arrives. Do you agree?

I think Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Adventist etc each bring something of value to the body of Christ which is necessary for it to function as intended. I do not think people will be translated irrespective of the Truth, but I do think that the Truth upon which translation hinges is Jesus Christ Himself, rather than any specific understanding of theology. Remember that those who toil all day at the field will recieve the same pay as those who only came to work for the last hour in Jesus parable.

Salvation is salvation etc. Being resurrected is not different from being translated in any other sense than that resurrection requires the individual to have tasted death first.
I agree that having the seal of God is essential and so is avoiding the mark of the beast. It is however likely that we disagree on what this seal and this mark are, from our previous conversations on the subject.

http://www.atoday.com/files/Fall%202009%20Feature.pdf

Thomas, it sounds like you believe the body of Christ includes everyone irrespective of what they believe. I'm curious, do you include non-Christian beliefs? If not, what criteria do you use to determine who is part of the body of Christ and who is not? A related question is - What is the difference between the seal of God and the mark of the beast? Do you agree with the following insights:

The sign, or seal, of God is revealed in the observance of the seventh-day Sabbath, the Lord's memorial of creation. . . . The mark of the beast is the opposite of this--the observance of the first day of the week.--8T 117 (1904).

Sundaykeeping is not yet the mark of the beast, and will not be until the decree goes forth causing men to worship this idol sabbath. The time will come when this day will be the test, but that time has not come yet. 7BC 977 (1899).

While the observance of the false sabbath in compliance with the law of the state, contrary to the fourth commandment, will be an avowal of allegiance to a power that is in opposition to God, the keeping of the true Sabbath, in obedience to God's law, is an evidence of loyalty to the Creator. While one class, by accepting the sign of submission to earthly powers, receive the mark of the beast, the other, choosing the token of allegiance to divine authority, receive the seal of God.--GC 605 (1911).

"While the gospel — the good news that Jesus died for our sins and offers us salvation absolutely free — never changes, the form that the gospel takes in presenting itself to the world must constantly be changing."

I disagree with this summary of the gospel. The good news is - Jesus earned the right on the cross to pardon the penitent and to empower them to cease sinning and to mature daily in the fruits of the Spirit.

No, I dont go that far. Paul wrote:

9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

This does not include any understandings on state of the dead or sanctuaries or sabbath, even though it certainly does not exclude it either. To believe this would require that I accept this doctrine as true despite not being able to show so from the scripture. I fail to see that it would hold up were you to support your point without reference to Ellens writings.

I can take "Jesus died for our sins and offers us salvation absolutely free" as a good summary, if we agree that salvation includes salvation from spiritual bondage (sin) as well as from physical bondage (death).

But it could be shown from Scripture that the seal of God is His character. We might be better off focusing on that. And it would emphasize the fact that beyond information, we need transformation.

Yes, though it is perhaps an even better case that the seal of God is the ministry of the Holy Spirit in the life of a believer.

I can go for that, too. I see them as equivalent.

Which then suggests the mark of the beast is unopposed ministry by the devil in the life of the unbeliever.

Right, although not necessarily unopposed. For me, when the spirit of the devil/flesh overcomes the Holy Spirit, that is the mark of the beast - the Beast makes his mark in the life of the unbeliever, and in others' lives through his influence. When one walks in selfishness instead of godliness, in the flesh instead of the Spirit, he bears the unmistakable mark of the Beast's rule.

So the disciples had the mark of the beast when they run away the night Jesus was arrested, and Peter when he denied knowing Jesus later that night?

If they were walking in the flesh, they had the mark of the beast. And they wouldn't have been in a safe or saved condition either. To be God's child is to be led by the Spirit, not the flesh.

?
We are not speaking about the "mark of the dragon" (that is, the sign of the devil's dominion over someone's life), but about the "mark of the beast." The beast is a specific agency of the dragon on earth; it's a persecuting power and its mark is its sign of authority which will be imposed by law at the time of the last great conflict of the church.

"And it causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark on their right hand, or in their foreheads, even that not any might buy or sell except those having the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of its name" (Rev. 3:16, 17).

We did switch over to a more general application, rather than the specific application found in Revelation, for both the seal of God and the mark of the beast. However, I believe that if we experience the general application of the seal of God, the specifics will be fine.

What would the specific application in Revelation be for the seal of God Arnold?

There will be two opposed groups - the 144,000 and the beast worshipers - and two opposed signs distinguishing them.
In the third angel's message, which presents the most severe warning already given against receiving the mark of the beast, we are told about what the seal of God will involve: "Here is the patience of the saints. Here are the ones who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Rev. 14:12). So the seal of God has to do with the commandments of God. Therefore, the mark of the beast has to do with a commandment of the beast which is in opposition to a commandment of God.

An understanding of the seal of God and the mark of the beast is one of the pillars or landmarks of Adventism. It is fundamental to Adventism. The book The Great Controversy advocates the inspired interpretation. To reject it is to reject the truth. The seventh-day Sabbath will be the focus of Satan's attack during the closing scenes of Earth's history. Any attempt to discredit this interpretation serves Satan's goals and purposes. The Bible is very upfront about it. It's not a joking matter or a trivial one. Getting it right is matter of life and death! Listen:

Revelation
14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The seal of God - godliness - and the mark of the beast - selfishness - will be manifested specifically by Sabbath observance. That commandment, more than the others, is a sign of God's authority because there is no reason for it based on nature and no reason to specify the seventh day based on human logic; the reason we do it is because it is God's revealed will. We submit to God's authority, as opposed to the authority of human reason or societal pressures.

But underneath all of that, the foundation of keeping the commandments and having the faith of Jesus is the Spirit's sovereignty in the Christian. Only as we have the seal of God in that sense can we hope to pass the test of loyalty that will reveal which seal or mark we have.