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Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: Green Cochoa] #120440
10/13/09 08:45 AM
10/13/09 08:45 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Originally Posted By: västergötland
Jesus began his answer by pointing to the scriptures. Therefore, can you support this case in its entierity from the books referred to by Jesus?

Certainly. However, it's a lengthy study better fit for a separate thread. If you can be more precise as to a specific question, perhaps I can provide a quick answer here. Otherwise, the larger study will have to wait.
Maybe the grand study should have the same coverage as did Jesus reply that we have been discussing?
Quote:

It should be significant to all, however, that Jesus tied the death/life definition into the leaders' question of marriage in the afterlife--and this following a statement to them that they erred, not knowing the scriptures.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
Indeed it should. It is a package response and we need to consider all parts of it in connection to the other parts.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: vastergotland] #120441
10/13/09 08:53 AM
10/13/09 08:53 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Vaster,

I don't understand what you mean by this: "Maybe the grand study should have the same coverage as did Jesus reply that we have been discussing?"

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: Green Cochoa] #120442
10/13/09 08:59 AM
10/13/09 08:59 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Vaster,

I don't understand what you mean by this: "Maybe the grand study should have the same coverage as did Jesus reply that we have been discussing?"

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

The same thing I did in my second sentence, that the present state of Abraham and sons ought best be discussed together with angels and marriages, on the grounds that Jesus saw fit to do so.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: vastergotland] #120443
10/13/09 02:58 PM
10/13/09 02:58 PM
G
gordonb1  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec

Thomas, I recall that you attended seminary.

Which seminary?
_____

Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: gordonb1] #120444
10/13/09 03:36 PM
10/13/09 03:36 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Thomas, why do you think a passage must be taken either literally or figuratively? Why can't a passage contain both elements? People mix literal and figurative speech all the time, right?

Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: Mountain Man] #120454
10/13/09 04:58 PM
10/13/09 04:58 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Gordon, your recall is in error. I have never studied theology in college or seminary settings.

Mike, if the literary style of a text is entirely arbitrary, how are we to know if a certain sentence is literary or figurative? On what basis do we make this interpretation? It seems rather close to fall into the "I like this part so it must be literary while I disagree with that part so thats just figure of speech". Just look at the discussion these last few pages.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: vastergotland] #120457
10/13/09 05:01 PM
10/13/09 05:01 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Thomas, the best way I know of to determine whether or not a passage is literal or figurative or a combination of both is to compare scripture with scripture. No text is an island. We cannot divorce what Jesus said about the resurrection and marriage from the larger context of the entire Bible.

Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: Mountain Man] #120461
10/13/09 05:12 PM
10/13/09 05:12 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
No sentence is an island either, it is reasonable to assume it is connected with the preceding and the following sentence unless there clearly is a paragraph and topic change..

As it comes to marriage, it seems to me that this verse in Matthew is regarded as The defining sentence which all others are measured against. Otherwise I would have expected more references to other texts.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: vastergotland] #120467
10/13/09 09:53 PM
10/13/09 09:53 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Do you agree with Ellen's insight (posted earlier on this therad)?

Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: vastergotland] #120468
10/13/09 11:11 PM
10/13/09 11:11 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Jesus made clear time and time again that what we call "death" is just a sleep. As I said, just read John 11. I don't consider this a mere metaphor, but as I said, even if you consider it a metaphor, the likeness between death and sleep is evident.
Webster's defintion of metaphor: "a figure of speech containing an implied comparison, in which a word or phrase ordinarily and primarily used of one thing is applied to another (Ex.: the curtain of night, 'all the world‘s a stage')."
But you haven't yet explained Jesus' words: "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in Heaven."
For the sake of argument, let's suppose this is a metaphor. Could you please explain its meaning?

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