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Re: D Asscherick Sermonettes
[Re: asygo]
#120327
10/11/09 12:42 AM
10/11/09 12:42 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Arnold, I agree. Does it mean, then, that believers who commit a known sin do so because they failed to stay in Christ? And, does Jesus declare them "clean" while they are committing a known sin? I got the impression from listening to Pastor A that he believes the disciples were committing known sins and Jesus declared them "clean" in spite of it.
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Re: D Asscherick Sermonettes
[Re: Mountain Man]
#120337
10/11/09 01:17 PM
10/11/09 01:17 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Mike, Jesus said, "He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit."
About this, Ellen White said, "He who came from the bath was clean, but the sandaled feet soon became dusty, and again needed to be washed. So Peter and his brethren had been washed in the great fountain opened for sin and uncleanness. Christ acknowledged them as His. But temptation had led them into evil, and they still needed His cleansing grace."
When had Peter been washed in the great fountain opened for sin and uncleanness, so that he could be described as "clean," except for his feet?
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Re: D Asscherick Sermonettes
[Re: Rosangela]
#120347
10/11/09 02:59 PM
10/11/09 02:59 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
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Rosangela, I'm guessing here but I suspect the disciples were washed during the 3 years they spent with Jesus learning the truths that set sinners free. Ellen wrote the following about the "great fountain": The Lord Jesus is very near to those who thus appreciate His gracious gifts, tracing all their good things back to the benevolent, loving, care-taking God, and recognizing Him as the great Fountain of all comfort and consolation, the inexhaustible Source of grace. {CG 149.1}
These truths of vital importance are to test the world; and yet in our own country there are cities, villages, and towns that have never heard the warning message. Young men who feel stirred by the appeals that have been made for help in this great work of advancing the cause of God make some advance moves, but do not get the burden of the work upon them sufficiently to accomplish what they might. They are willing to do a small work which does not require special effort. Therefore they do not learn to place their whole dependence upon God and by living faith draw from the great Fountain and Source of light and strength in order that their efforts may prove wholly successful. {3T 202.2}
Those who appreciate the word will teach as disciples who have been sitting at the feet of Jesus and have accustomed themselves to learn of Him. In the place of bringing into our schools books containing the suppositions of the world's great authors, they will say: Tempt me not to disregard the greatest Author and the greatest Teacher, through whom I have everlasting life. He never mistakes. He is the great Fountain head whence all wisdom flows. Then let every teacher sow the seed of truth in the minds of students. Christ is the standard Teacher. {6T 160.1}
As the weary traveler seeks the spring in the desert and, finding it, quenches his burning thirst, so will the Christian thirst for and obtain the pure water of life, of which Christ is the fountain. {MB 19.2}
As we discern the perfection of our Saviour's character we shall desire to become wholly transformed and renewed in the image of His purity. The more we know of God, the higher will be our ideal of character and the more earnest our longing to reflect His likeness. A divine element combines with the human when the soul reaches out after God and the longing heart can say, "My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from Him." Psalm 62:5. {MB 19.3}
If you have a sense of need in your soul, if you hunger and thirst after righteousness, this is an evidence that Christ has wrought upon your heart, in order that He may be sought unto to do for you, through the endowment of the Holy Spirit, those things which it is impossible for you to do for yourself. We need not seek to quench our thirst at shallow streams; for the great fountain is just above us, of whose abundant waters we may freely drink, if we will rise a little higher in the pathway of faith. {MB 19.4}
The words of God are the wellsprings of life. As you seek unto those living springs you will, through the Holy Spirit, be brought into communion with Christ. Familiar truths will present themselves to your mind in a new aspect, texts of Scripture will burst upon you with a new meaning as a flash of light, you will see the relation of other truths to the work of redemption, and you will know that Christ is leading you, a divine Teacher is at your side. {MB 20.1}
Jesus said, "The water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." John 4:14. As the Holy Spirit opens to you the truth you will treasure up the most precious experiences and will long to speak to others of the comforting things that have been revealed to you. When brought into association with them you will communicate some fresh thought in regard to the character or the work of Christ. You will have some fresh revelation of His pitying love to impart to those who love Him and to those who love Him not. {MB 20.2} They were "every whit clean" by the time they were guilty of "alienation, jealousy, and pride". That is, they full well understood their guilt. They were not ignorant of their sins. They knew perfectly well they were sinning. Their willful acts of sin contaminated them. They required additional cleansing to help them see their sins in the proper light. Observing Jesus humble Himself washing their dirty feet opened their eyes to the truth needed to restore them to their former state of cleanliness. Such a state can be retained only through constant vigilant watchfulness while abiding in Jesus. If we neglect such thoroughness of faithfulness we will sin.
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Re: D Asscherick Sermonettes
[Re: Mountain Man]
#120352
10/11/09 03:15 PM
10/11/09 03:15 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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OK, then they were clean before they were perfect. I mean, they were still growing, and could manifest occasional weaknesses during the growth process, that is, temptation could occasionally lead them into evil. (To be clear, I'm not speking of willfully indulging sin, or of cherishing sin.)
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Re: D Asscherick Sermonettes
[Re: Rosangela]
#120365
10/11/09 08:23 PM
10/11/09 08:23 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Yes, I agree, they were cleansed of sin and evil through contact with Jesus and the truth. However, the use of the word "perfect" can be misleading. It can mean two different realities: 1) Complete in Christ, and 2) Mature in the fruits of the Spirit. Believers are born again complete with all the righteous fruits and attributes of God's character. Not one is missing. However, they are not born again mature. Like Jesus, they begin perfect (complete) and then they spend the rest of their lives becoming perfect (growing in grace and maturing in the fruits of the Spirit). This includes recognizing and resisting sin, self, and Satan. It also involves preventing their confessed and crucified defects, weaknesses, and imperfections from resurfacing. They must work to keep them under the control of a sanctified will and mind. Of course, eternity isn't long enough to exhaust our ability to become more and more perfect (mature), more and more like Jesus.
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Re: D Asscherick Sermonettes
[Re: Mountain Man]
#120433
10/13/09 04:14 AM
10/13/09 04:14 AM
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SDA Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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Does it mean, then, that believers who commit a known sin do so because they failed to stay in Christ? Right. "In Him is no sin." And, does Jesus declare them "clean" while they are committing a known sin? No. That's why Judas wasn't clean. I got the impression from listening to Pastor A that he believes the disciples were committing known sins and Jesus declared them "clean" in spite of it. I'll comment on that if/when I get there.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: D Asscherick Sermonettes
[Re: Mountain Man]
#121091
10/28/09 10:06 PM
10/28/09 10:06 PM
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SDA Active Member 2023
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Posts: 5,583
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I got the impression from listening to Pastor A that he believes the disciples were committing known sins and Jesus declared them "clean" in spite of it. I've seen all the links from the OP and I don't have any problem. I did not hear the teaching that the disciples were clean while they were sinning. What I got was that they were made clean, even though they had sinned. But the overriding lesson I believe he was trying to get across was that if the disciples wanted to stay clean, they had to be made clean first. This is a lesson we all need to learn, especially the more conservative among us, which constitutes the majority of David A's audience, I think. We must understand that we are clean, and we remain clean, not by any righteous works we may have done, but in spite of the unrighteous works we have done countless times. Any cleanliness we may have is because of God's grace and mercy. And for the left-leaning among us, note that cleanliness and salvation come from the same foundation - God's grace and mercy. They are fruits from the same tree.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: D Asscherick Sermonettes
[Re: asygo]
#121095
10/29/09 01:46 AM
10/29/09 01:46 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Arnold, well said. I agree. Do you agree with what I wrote in my previous post?
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Re: D Asscherick Sermonettes
[Re: Mountain Man]
#121143
10/30/09 02:04 AM
10/30/09 02:04 AM
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SDA Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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I believe I do agree with it, but with the possible exception of unknown sins. But that's for another thread.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: D Asscherick Sermonettes
[Re: asygo]
#121149
10/30/09 02:32 PM
10/30/09 02:32 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Ah, yes, unknown sins. I'll start a new thread.
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