This study, being truly impressive in its final implications, and being unrelated to the topic of marriage in the New Earth, in spite of the fact that Jesus took special opportunity to speak to this issue when answering the Jews' question on that, is started here as a separate thread. To view the lead up discussion and inspiration for this, please click here.

This thread might also be named "The State of Life" as opposed to the State of the Dead. Both will be covered here, particularly as they relate to Jesus' and/or God's perspective.

First, in order to understand the better known subject of death in the light of Christ's words, it is simplest to focus first on the "life" portion, and then look at its opposite.



Notice the verb tense. The verb tense is the key here. Present tense. This is the same tense used here:



Jesus speaks of a time in the past when God spoke to the Israelites these words, referring to His being the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Jesus' listeners know very well that these patriarchs are no longer living. They even know where these men are buried. But Jesus next startles them by saying "God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

This can only mean one of two things:

1) Jesus is saying that God's earlier words to the Israelites were false; or
2) Jesus is saying that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are not dead, but alive.

Either one of these meanings would shock them. However, the first one is unthinkable--that God would lie--so the second one is the only option truly remaining.

Considering we know of a certainty that the patriarchs were in their graves awaiting the resurrection, what did Jesus mean? How could they be "alive?"

Here are the other two angles on the same passage:


Both Mark and Luke speak of the resurrection as being future. In Luke, however, there is a slight twist--Jesus explains the fact that the resurrection day is alluded to by God Himself when speaking to Moses at the burning bush! This seems a clear thrust at the Sadducees' doctrine of "no resurrection."

In the same words, Jesus implies that the Jewish leaders should have known that God is not a God of the dead, but of the living.

To be continued in next post...

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Let's look at some more of Jesus' perspective on life.



Here, Jesus calls death a "sleep." Why? Because Lazarus is "alive" in His estimation. Lazarus was a righteous man. Had He not been righteous, he would have been dead, instead of merely asleep. God is not the God of the dead (they have chosen another God), but of the living (those who are "alive" in Christ).

Let's look at Jesus' perspective on the opposite fact: death.



Here we see Jesus speaking of the Scribes and Pharisees as though they were dead. It is clear to all that the subjects of His attention are alive (physically). Why, then, does Jesus call them "dead?" (You can't get much more dead than to be as a painted casket with mere bones and filth left inside!)

Jesus' perspective on life and death essentially boils down to two spiritual states:

1) Those who are "alive" are those who have Christ.
2) Those who are "dead" are those who are divorced from God.

Regarding these two points, it matters not where on the time line of one's physical life/death one might be. The only difference would be that death distinctly finishes probationary time, forever sealing one's spiritual state.

For those who are His at death, the Bible says this: "Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints" (Psalm 116:15).

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

GC, clearly Jesus believed death is a sleep because He will raise them up again. I think this applies to both the righteous and the unrighteous in the sense both will be raised up again. No one is truly dead until they perish in the lake of fire.

GC,

In the other thread you said,


I think I partly agree with you, and partly disagree. I see physical death as a sleep in every case. Spiritual death is another thing. You may have existence here, but if you don't have the eternal life in Christ, you are spiritually dead.
As to the physical death, it is a sleep to the wicked too, because they will wake up from it. "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Cor. 15:22).

"In consequence of Adam's sin, death passed upon the whole human race. All alike go down into the grave. And through the provisions of the plan of salvation, all are to be brought forth from their graves. 'There shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust;' 'for as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.' Acts 24:15; I Corinthians 15:22. But a distinction is made between the two classes that are brought forth. 'All that are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.' John 5:28, 29." {GC 544.2}

My question to both Rosangela and Mike would be...why did Jesus call some who were physically living, dead? If they were dead, while yet alive, don't you suppose they would so much the more so, if they die literally while in that spiritually dead condition?

I agree that all (or nearly so) will be raised again, whether wicked or righteous. But I believe that once raised, the wicked dead will still be "dead" in the spiritual sense of being divorced from God/life. Jesus is "the way, the truth, and the life." Without Him, no one truly has life.

"I have come that they might have life, and have it more abundantly," Jesus said. Without Him, we are dead. If we are also in the grave, so much the more.

Do you both agree that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were only considered alive because they were "resting" in Christ? What about the Sodomites who had been visited with the vengeance of God--were they also "alive" in the same sense the patriarchs were? What are your thoughts on these?

To my view, as the disciples pointed out to Christ, one can only "sleep" if one is alive.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

All good so far Greenie, but you still have not presented the case Jesus was referring to when He pointed at the scriptures. The new testament was still happening back then and would not have been what Jesus pointed to.

Vaster,

Jesus pointed to the burning bush. Did I fail to mention this?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

GC, the spiritually dead are very much alive in the terrestrial sense. And, like the righteous dead, the sinful dead are also asleep in the sense they will one day awake. No one is currently dead. Real death will not occur until the wicked perish in the lake of fire.

That's an interesting perspective, Mike. But it still does not explain why Jesus called some who were alive "dead."

Can you explain that?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Greenie, I dont think the burning bush is all one needs to understand to be able to understand Jesus reply to the Sadduces. Had that been all there is to the question in the jewish scriptures im sure it would not have been an issue.