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Re: SWINE FLU [Re: Daryl] #120810
10/22/09 01:28 PM
10/22/09 01:28 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
The vaccination in Britain began yesterday for the A flu priority groups. It's estimated that 11 million people will be vaccinated in this first instance. Let's see what happens.

Re: SWINE FLU [Re: Rosangela] #120816
10/22/09 03:04 PM
10/22/09 03:04 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Here's from an Adventist academy in British Columbia, Canada:

Quote:
Flu Policy, October 2009

Pandemic Policy

Particularly for H1N1


October 6, 2009

(Passed by the school board on October 6, 2009)

Fraser Valley Adventist Academy works with Fraser Health to ensure the best ways to deal with the threat of H1N1 in schools. FVAA is proactive in urging students to wash hands thoroughly and frequently and avoid unnecessary physical contact with others. Students are also cautioned to sneeze or cough into a tissue or the inside of their elbows. If students have a fever, they are told to remain at home until they have been free from fever and other symptoms for 24 hours. Students who become ill at school with a fever are separated from their classmates till a parent or guardian, or parent-appointed designate can pick them up from school and take them home. Students with a fever are not sent home on the bus.

Fraser Valley Adventist Academy has also installed a number of hand sanitizers around the school to help encourage students, staff, and visitors to reduce the transmission of germs and viruses.

If administration and staff become aware of a case of H1N1 associated with the school, the BC conference will be notified, and parents/guardians will be informed through OneCallNow. The school will not close unless advised to do so by Fraser Health. In order to protect the privacy of children and staff working at FVAA, we will be unable to release any details about who has H1N1.


Falling in line with the health departments? At least they did not say that all students are required to be vaccinated.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: SWINE FLU [Re: Green Cochoa] #120890
10/23/09 11:53 PM
10/23/09 11:53 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
It's interesting that you should focus on Vitamin E. There have been many studies done to find a toxicity level (overdose) for Vitamin E. No toxicity level has yet been found. Look carefully at the language of the quotes you posted. For example: "The researchers speculate high doses of Vitamin E may upset....or perhaps...." There is nothing definitive there.
Hi Green, I wasn't focussing on Vit. E., I didn't have much time and I just pulled some quick references I found on while googling. I'm sure if I take time, I could find links for most vitamins.

Originally Posted By: Green
Keep in mind that the pharmaceutical companies do not make money selling vitamins. Their goal (for the love of money) is to discredit vitamins, and make doctors into "unprofessional practitioners" if they recommend them.
Keep in mind that other companies are making a lot of money in selling vitamins. For example I found this stat "The vitamin C market was monopolized by seven key manufacturers and generated $151.7 million in revenues in 2005. " This was only for Vitamin C in America. Here's another "The US health supplement store industry includes 5,000 companies operating about 10,000 stores with combined annual revenue of about $6 billion." Whereas "The value of the global pharmaceutical market is expected to grow 4 to 6 percent in 2010, exceeding $825 billion, led by stronger near-term growth in the US market, according to a forecast by IMS Health. In addition, the company raised its expectations for five-year growth in the international prescription drug market by one percentage point in its latest forecast, to between 4 and 7 percent per year through 2013, "partly due to the stronger demand being experienced in 2009."

A big majority of people who pops vitamins are those who doesn't change their lifestyle. Studies shows, that they are no long term health benefits popping vitamines without lifestyle changes. So the pharmaceutical companies are not being harmed at all.

I have seen too much papers when working in health research to hold this position. Plus I know that Dr. Sang Lee and heard about Dr. MacDougall with all their serious research believe the principle that I have quoted above. They wouldn't recommend nor agree with this type of focuss.

Originally Posted By: Green
But when one is sick, high-dose vitamins may be required to treat a vitamin deficiency and/or a condition for which the vitamin will be therapeutic. If someone gets scurvy, by all means, give them some large doses of Vitamin D.
I don't believe we are talking about vitamin deficiency here. Vitamin deficiency is not what are society is suffering. What we are dealing with is the general public including SDAs, which don't want to change their lifestyle and are seeking the magic pill. It's easier to pop pills than to change. Many go that route thinking they are safe and it's causing more harm than good.

You brought up Vitamin C, here's what Wiki's warnings :
Quote:
Possible adverse effects
While being harmless in most typical quantities, as with all substances to which the human body is exposed, vitamin C can still cause harm under certain conditions. In the medical community, these are known as contraindications.

As vitamin C enhances iron absorption for iron deficiency, iron overload may become an issue to people with rare iron-overload conditions, such as Beta (β) thalassemias.
A genetic condition that results in inadequate levels of the enzyme glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD), can cause sufferers to develop hemolytic anemia after ingesting specific oxidizing substances (favism), such as very large dosages of vitamin C. There are common, inexpensive tests for G6PD deficiency.
There is a longstanding belief among the mainstream medical community that vitamin C causes kidney stones, which seems based little on science.[36] Although some individual recent studies have found a relationship[37] there is no clear relationship between excess ascorbic acid intake and kidney stone formation.[38]
[edit] Side-effects
Although vitamin C can be well tolerated at doses well above the RDA recommendations, megadosing may cause side effects such as stomach upset and laxative effects such as diarrhea. The dose at which these effects may occur varies with the individual and health condition.

High quantities of any acid will raise the acidity of the stomach and potentially cause heartburn, but the pH of the acid can be simply neutralized with baking soda if mixed in ratio 1,000 mg L-ascorbic acid / 477 mg baking soda. Too much of baking soda makes the solution salty, too little will leave the solution tasting sour, just right will make it neutral with no taste. This process has no effect on vitamin C content, only on the pH of the solution and taste.
Relatively large doses of vitamin C may cause indigestion, particularly when taken on an empty stomach. This generally occurs at doses larger than 10,000 mg / day, but may occur at much higher doses if the patient is ill.[39]
When taken in large doses, vitamin C causes diarrhea. The minimum dose that brings about this laxation effect varies on the individual. This has been called the "bowel tolerance limit". It ranges from 5 to 25 grams per day in healthy individuals to 300 grams per day in severely ill patients, such as those with AIDS or cancer[citation needed].
It has been suggested that large doses of acidic vitamin C solution (ascorbic acid) swished around the mouth, rather than swallowed directly without a neutral rinse, may erode dentition.[40]
A 31-year-old Australian woman who had received a kidney transplant died soon afterward as a result of calcium oxalate deposits that destroyed her new kidney function. Doctors concluded that high-dose vitamin C therapy should be avoided in patients with kidney failure.[41] However, oxalate-induced kidney failure has been reported in people with no apparent kidney problem.[citation needed]
High dosage vitamin C ingestion may cause early onset of puberty in females. The source of the vitamin appears independent of the effect.[42][verification needed]
[edit] Chance of overdose
As discussed previously, vitamin C generally exhibits low toxicity. The LD50 (the dose that will kill 50% of a population) is generally accepted to be 11900 milligrams per kilogram in rat populations.[43] Vitamin C proponent Dr. Robert Cathcart M.D. reports that he has used intravenous doses of 60 grams, with simultaneous oral doses of unspecified amount, with no adverse effects.[7]

[edit] Conflicts with prescription drugs
Pharmaceuticals designed to reduce stomach acid, such as the proton pump inhibitors (PPIs), are among the most widely-sold drugs in the world. One PPI, omeprazole (Prilosec), has been found to lower the bioavailability of vitamin C by 12%, independent of dietary intake. The probable mechanism of vitamin C reduction, intragastric pH elevated into alkalinity, would apply to all other PPI drugs, though not necessarily to doses of PPIs low enough to keep the stomach slightly acidic.[44]

[edit] Potential harmful effects
Some test-tube experiments have interpreted that Vitamin C may have possible adverse effects on decomposition of lipid peroxides[45] in nonviable in vivo quantities and conditions[46] and inhibit caspase-8 dependent apoptosis.[47] In April 1998 the journal Nature reported pro-oxidant effects of excessive doses of vitamin C / ascorbic acid.[48] The effects were noted in test tube experiments and on only two of the 20 markers of free radical damage to DNA. They have not been supported by further evidence from living organisms.[46]
In June 2004, Duke University researchers reported an increased susceptibility to osteoarthritis in guinea pigs fed a diet high in vitamin C. However, a 2003 study at Umeå University in Sweden, found that "the plasma levels of vitamin C, retinol and uric acid were inversely correlated to variables related to rheumatoid arthritis disease activity."
A speculated increased risk of kidney stones may be a side effect of taking vitamin C in larger than normal amounts (more than 1 gram). The potential mechanism of action is through the metabolism of vitamin C to dehydroascorbic acid, which is then metabolized to oxalic acid,[49] a known constituent of kidney stones. However, this oxalate issue is still controversial, with evidence being presented for[50] and against[51] the possibility of this side effect.
"Rebound scurvy" is a theoretical, never observed, condition that could occur when daily intake of vitamin C is rapidly reduced from a very large amount to a relatively low amount. Advocates suggest this is an exaggeration of the rebound effect which occurs because ascorbate-dependent enzyme reactions continue for 24–48 hours after intake is lowered, and use up vitamin C which is not being replenished.
Some writers[52] have identified a risk of poor copper absorption from high doses of vitamin C. Ceruloplasmin levels seem specifically lowered by high vitamin C intake. In one study, 600 milligrams of vitamin C daily led to lower ceruloplasmin levels similar to those caused by copper deficiency.[53] In another, ceruloplasmin levels were significantly reduced.[54]
Some alternative medicine proponents suggest that doses of around 6-10 grams per day of vitamin C can induce an abortion in women under 4 weeks of pregnancy.[55] This is based on evidence that high-dose vitamin C increases estrogen levels that may contribute to abortion in early-stage pregnancy, and that these properties have been demonstrated in laboratory animals.[56] This theory however is in direct opposition to Dr. Klenner's claim that there were no miscarries in over 300 consecutive pregnant patients who received 3g to 6g per day of Vitamin C,[57] whereby Dr. Klenner concluded that failure to use this agent in sufficient amounts in pregnancy borders on malpractice.

I'm sorry, but I disaggree with you. However, I think we are getting off topic and probably this would need to be address on a seperate thread.


Blessings
Re: SWINE FLU [Re: Elle] #120892
10/24/09 01:10 AM
10/24/09 01:10 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Elle,

I still see this as being germane to the topic we are discussing. Why do some people get swine flu and others do not? It has everything to do with immunity. Anything, therefore, that will boost immunity will prove beneficial in prevention of swine flu.

Naturally, this includes all of the NEWSTART principles. Nutrition is the key word when we speak of supplements.

It is a known fact that most soils around the world are deficient in iodine. The government has the salt manufactures put a tiny bit of it back into the salt supply, called "iodized salt." This is a form of supplementation. Unfortunately, it is about as effective as the vitamins that get put back into the breakfast cereals after all of the processing that has taken place which removed the original ones...that is, not very. So called "enriched flour" is actually a misnomer, as it contains less of the vitamins than were in the original. Nevertheless, this represents a form of vitamin supplementation.

What we are facing today is a loss of the original vitamins due to processed foods. Think your tomatoes are "natural" and therefore full of vitamins? Think again. They are often grown in mass, sometimes in special greenhouses where the plants are given just the nutrients needed to produce their fruit. They are picked very green, and kept in refrigerated storage under very controlled conditions for sometimes many months before being gassed with ethylene to "ripen" them (making them turn red). Do you get the same vitamins and nutrients out of such a food, even a "natural" food? I think not.

To top this off, our environment is polluted much more now than a century ago. The increased pollution demands increased consumption of vitamins so that the liver can properly detoxify the body. For example, I've heard somewhere that smokers "burn" about 500 mg. of Vitamin C each day on account of their smoke.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: SWINE FLU [Re: Green Cochoa] #120893
10/24/09 02:50 AM
10/24/09 02:50 AM
G
gordonb1  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec
Green,

The pill plan will render us as "ripe" as your hydroponic tomatoes.

God has a better plan. Remember the Creation Sabbath, but don't forget the Creator. There's "only one way that Heaven approves...but drugs are expensive.." 5T443.

Most supplements are refined synthetic compounds. Drugs. Same thing found in your hothouse irrigation water.

John McDougall's not SDA, but his nutritional advice mirrors much found in the Spirit of Prophecy. He outlines the dangers of artificial supplementation - an imbalance.

Dr. (Sir) Dennis Burkitt was not SDA either, but a Christian M.D. who declared (from SDA pulpits) that "we have stone age bodies" but feed them with high tech food.

More wisdom from the Gentiles.

Tomatoes? ... grow your own.
_____

Re: SWINE FLU [Re: gordonb1] #120894
10/24/09 04:42 AM
10/24/09 04:42 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Gordon,

It would be wonderful if everyone could grow their own. It is not reality. Grow tomatoes, perhaps, but do you grow your own rice or wheat? Is it possible to get non-GMO, organic rice and wheat? flour? pesticide-free fruits, whether in season or out? Should every Adventist be a farmer in order to follow God's "only one way that Heaven approves?"

As a missionary, I am not a farmer. Nor do I have access to some of the blessings of the homeland. If you can get pesticide-free products, consistently, you are blessed beyond my ability here. Meanwhile, I use Vitamins when I am sick, and I have proven through experience their worth.

The fact is that our modern environment is a different world from Ellen White's day.

As has been brought out earlier, Ellen White never advocated a zero-tolerance policy for medicines. It is important to be balanced, she said, so that "health reform" does not become "health deform."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: SWINE FLU [Re: Green Cochoa] #120896
10/24/09 06:26 AM
10/24/09 06:26 AM
C
crater  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
We don't want to get to far off topic, and vitamins could be an interesting forum topic if we wish to keep going? smile

So I will just add that, Dr. Joel Robins, MD. has written a little article " Vitamin Supplements are not Food Supplements " I find that he give a pretty good explanation on this subject.

In his bibliography he recommends; "An excellent book for more insight and references on the subject of natural vs. synthetic supplementation is" The Real Truth About Vitamins and Antioxidants by Judith A. DeCava, CNC, LNC

Re: SWINE FLU [Re: crater] #120967
10/26/09 12:53 PM
10/26/09 12:53 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
Today is the beginning of the national H1N1 Swine Flu vaccination across Canada.

Canada AM (TV new program) stated that 51% of Canadians have chosen NOT to take this flu vaccination.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: SWINE FLU [Re: Green Cochoa] #120969
10/26/09 02:01 PM
10/26/09 02:01 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
As has been brought out earlier, Ellen White never advocated a zero-tolerance policy for medicines. It is important to be balanced, she said, so that "health reform" does not become "health deform."
I believe you were referring to a topic on vaccinations which would relate to this swine vaccinations topic.

Someone did say Ellen White never advocated a zero-tolerance policy for medicines, but it was never established. However, she did say, "Drugs never cure disease". If you consider vaccination not to be a drug, could you justify each of their ingredients as not being a drug?

Re: SWINE FLU [Re: kland] #120973
10/26/09 02:33 PM
10/26/09 02:33 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
kland,

We have written testimony in the historical archives of the fact that Ellen White was herself vaccinated and that she recommended the vaccine to those around her. Apparently, then, she either did not class vaccines as "drugs" or else she felt that this was a separate case where the vaccine was helpful.

I see myself as a moderate on the issue, though many would consider me to be anti-vaccination. What might be good for one may not be good for all. Further, what might be beneficial in one situation may be totally unnecessary in another. I've said before, and perhaps it bears repeating, that I am comfortable with vaccines for TWO diseases: Polio and Tetanus. If there were a vaccine against Ebola, I might also include that one. I am UNcomfortable with all other vaccines. Nevertheless, I am also uncomfortable with any form of mandates on the issue, and would be happy if people have the freedom to educate themselves and choose individually in these matters. Your right to avoid all vaccines is as important with me as another's right to take them all.

As for the Swine Flu vaccine--I would not touch it with a ten-foot pole, and I would and do warn people against it.

Regarding Ellen White's use of the word "drugs," it did differ somewhat from her use of the similar word "medicines." She used "drugs" to refer to such poisons as calomel (mercury), strychnine, arsenic, and other similar body-harming substances. She used "medicines" partly overlapping with the term "drugs" but referring to the milder ones.

Originally Posted By: Ellen White
By the use of poisonous drugs, many bring upon themselves lifelong illness, and many lives are lost that might be saved by the use of natural methods of healing. The poisons contained in many so-called remedies create habits and appetites that mean ruin to both soul and body. Many of the popular nostrums called patent medicines, and even some of the drugs dispensed by physicians, act a part in laying the foundation of the liquor habit, the opium habit, the morphine habit, that are so terrible a curse to society. 152 {CCh 105.3}
Drug medication, as it is generally practiced, is a curse. Educate away from drugs. Use them less and less, and depend more upon hygienic agencies; then nature will respond to God's physicians—pure air, pure water, proper exercise, a clear conscience. Those who persist in the use of tea, coffee, and flesh meats will feel the need of drugs, but many might recover without one grain of medicine if they would obey the laws of health. Drugs need seldom be used. 153 {CCh 105.4}

That last sentence tells us that sometimes drugs do need to be used. If I go in to the hospital after a car accident in which my spleen has ruptured and the doctors must do surgery to stop the internal bleeding, I sure hope they use some anesthesia on me! Not doing so would be pointless.

The scary part about the swine flu is that, according to Dr. Mercola, the government has made it illegal for a medical profession (or anyone?) to make any claim for any drug, medicine, or supplement to be effective against the swine flu. The only thing the medical professionals are supposed to recommend is the vaccine. I'm not sure where one would find the actual wording of the law on this, but it does seem to limit free speech and truth on the issue. Would I be prosecuted for saying that Vitamin C and gargling salt water actually helped me to overcome the swine flu?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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