GC,

We don't need to know everything - we just need to know enough to not commit a sin. We sure don't know everything perfectly.
The expression "sin of ignorance," though, as used in the Bible and in EGW, does not refer to that. It refers to a class of sins opposed to willful sins. Willful sins are sins committed with a defiant attitude toward God; it is to know the truth and say, "I'm not going to obey it because I do not want to obey it"; it is to treat both God and His Word with contempt.
This kind of sin is dangerous, not because God is unwilling to forgive, but because the sinner eventually becomes unwilling to be forgiven.
Writing, for instance, about the man who gathered sticks on the Sabbath, Ellen White says,

The Lord's announcement that He would disinherit Israel had roused a spirit of rebellion. One of the people, angry at being excluded from Canaan, and determined to show his defiance of God's law, ventured upon the open transgression of the fourth commandment by going out to gather sticks upon the Sabbath. ... The act of this man was a willful and deliberate violation of the fourth commandment--a sin, not of thoughtlessness or ignorance, but of presumption. {PP 408.4}

Please notice that she says, "not of ... ignorance, but of presumption"

Rosangela,

The sense is different. There are two kinds of "sins of ignorance." The use of the term by Mrs. White regarding the man gathering sticks is to help us know that this man had not sinned without realizing it. He knew he was sinning. He was not ignorant of it.

However, he was still ignorant of the true nature of sin, including the one he committed. He did not know God fully. He did not understand the terrible results of sin, nor what would come to him or to others by it. In this sense, his was still a sin of ignorance.

It is just this kind of "sin of ignorance" that the sacrifices atoned for. Jesus, being the Anti-typical Sacrifice, fulfilled the type in asking forgiveness for us on account of our ignorance.

Obviously, the Sabbath-breaker sinned in angry defiance, and we have no record of him showing any kind of remorse or penitence afterward. I like to think that had he realized his sin, and wished to offer sacrifice for it, he might have been spared. However, his rebellious spirit was more dangerous to God's people than a contagious plague, and he was put to death for the protection of others.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

This is a new thought to me. I'm trying to wrap my mind around it. What are some biblical examples of people committing intentional and unintentional sins? Were the Jews sinning ignorantly, unintentionally when Jesus prayed, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they are doing"?

Also, did Lucifer sin ignorantly before his final decision to rebel openly?

GC, please cite biblical examples of people committing the unpardonable sin. If it requires perfect knowledge of God's law and love to commit the unpardonable sin, who in the Bible was capable of doing so? Must we reach the point of no return to commit a sin that can bar the gates of heaven against us?

Mike,

I guess we are speaking of two kinds of "unpardonable sin" here. I tried to speak to this earlier, but I probably was less than clear. Here are the two I see, and they are different situations:

1) Sins which cannot be atoned for on account of a perfect knowledge while willfully committing the sin; and

2) Sins which cannot be atoned for on account of the fact that no request for pardon was made.

The former applies to Satan and his host. The latter applies to those who have hardened themselves through consistent denial of the voice of conscience, or through some heinous act (such as suicide), which prevents them from asking pardon, or feeling any desire to repent.

As for Biblical examples: Judas, the Pharisees upon having crucified Christ, King Saul -- each of these knew and understood his guilt, but felt no desire to seek God's forgiveness. They knew they were lost, and were afraid, but were not penitent. It is my believe that any one of these might have received pardon had he only humbly sought God, repentant, and with confession of their sins. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

The key in that text is "if." If we do not confess our sins, there is no pardon for them.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Sure. That's why it took me a while to understand what you meant. But AFAIK neither the Bible nor Ellen White use the term "sin(s) of ignorance" in the sense you are using it (although it seens to me the concept you are presenting is true).


What do you make, for instance, of this passage?

Those who have an opportunity to hear the truth and yet take no pains to hear or understand it, thinking that if they do not hear they will not be accountable, will be judged guilty before God the same as if they had heard and rejected. There will be no excuse for those who choose to go in error when they might understand what is truth. In His sufferings and death Jesus has made atonement for all sins of ignorance, but there is no provision made for willful blindness. {LDE 218.1}

Ellen White is mentioning here a kind of sin for which there is no provision.

1) Sins which cannot be atoned for on account of a perfect knowledge while willfully committing the sin.

Who is an example of someone committing this type of unpardonable sin?

2) Sins which cannot be atoned for on account of the fact that no request for pardon was made.

What if they are ignorant of the need to repent?

Intentional X unintentional sin. I would give Judas and Peter as a classical example.


The Jewish leaders were sinning intentionally, however what GC said is true. Perhaps all willful sins have some degree of ignorance in them (which will be removed on the Judgment Day), and perhaps some sins of ignorance have some degree of willfulness in them.


IMO Yes, to a great extent.

Which is which? Seems to me both sinned intentionally. In what sense was Peter ignorant? In what sense was Judas not ignorant?


How can the line between the two be so blurry if they represent the only two categories of sin? Does the following passage shed any light:


I am inclined to believe there are two categories and eight types of sin. The two categories are accountable and non-accountable. Accountable sins are unholy thoughts, words, and deeds we know are wrong and God requires us to repent of them. Non-accountable sins are specific types of sins that do not require repentance.

The five accountable sins are:
1. Intentional: an intentional sin is premeditated and deliberate.
2. Unintentional: an unintentional sin is spontaneous and unplanned.
3. Omission: a sin of omission is leaving a good deed left undone.
4. Faithless: a faithless sin is doing the right thing for the wrong reason.
5. Unpardonable: an unpardonable sin is any sin we refuse to confess and forsake.

The three non-accountable sins are:
1. Ignorant: a sin of ignorance is any sin we commit unknowingly or unwittingly.
2. Sinful Flesh: the unholy thoughts and feelings generated and communicated by our sinful flesh are only temptations.
3. Forgiven: sins forgiven are sins confessed, forsaken, and pardoned.

There is also an age of non-accountability, a period of time when small children are not held accountable for their thoughts, words, or deeds. Eventually, however, children come of age and, depending on the individual and the specific issue, they become responsible for their moral thoughts, words, and behavior. Every sin, when reduced to its lowest common denominator, is selfishness.


It is hard to read the SOP accounts of Lucifer's strategy and actions, before he made his final decision, and conclude it was “inadvertent” and “without intent” and "unintentional" and “errors committed through ignorance, thoughtlessness, or weakness”. It seems rather intentional to me.

You asked, "Can a real Christian sin with the intent of sinning, or because he wants to sin? Can a real Christian sin because he despises God and His law?" Assuming Lucifer was a "real Christian", one could assume he was incapable of sinning ignorantly. His knowledge of God's law and love was perfect, lacking nothing. How could he sin ignorantly?

Did Peter plan to sin, did he premeditate his sin? Or was he overcome by weakness? He said to Christ, "Lord, I am ready to go with You, both to prison and to death" – and meant it.
What about Judas? Did he plan to sin, did he premeditate his sin? Was he warned about it but decided to go ahead with it no matter what?
It’s easy to see de difference.



There are only two classes of sin: intentional and unintentional (see comments above).


Lucifer was blinded by his selfish thoughts and feelings.

Lucifer himself had not at first been acquainted with the real nature of his feelings; for a time he had feared to express the workings and imaginings of his mind; yet he did not dismiss them. He did not see whither he was drifting. But such efforts as infinite love and wisdom only could devise, were made to convince him of his error. His disaffection was proved to be without cause, and he was made to see what would be the result of persisting in revolt. Lucifer was convinced that he was in the wrong. He saw that "the Lord is righteous in all His ways, and holy in all His works" (Psalm 145:17); that the divine statutes are just, and that he ought to acknowledge them as such before all heaven. Had he done this, he might have saved himself and many angels. ...The time had come for a final decision... {PP 39.1}

There was a moment when he finally was convinced that he was in the wrong and saw that the Lord and His statutes are just. Until then he had been sinning without an intent (partially at least); from then on, his sin became willful.

“When the light shines, making manifest and reproving the errors that were undiscovered, there must be a corresponding change in the life and character. The mistakes that are the natural result of blindness of mind are, when pointed out, no longer sins of ignorance or errors of judgment; but unless there are decided reforms in accordance with the light given, they then become presumptuous sins.” {5T 435, 436}