In creationist cosmology, a problem seems apparent when studying light from distant stars. If the universe was created 6000 years ago then light shouldn't be visible from distances greater than 6000 light years. As of 2008, the furthest visible light has been measured at 13,730,000,000 light years. As a result, Big Bang theorists claim that the visible universe is 13,730,000,000 years old. This is false and I'll endeavor to explain why.

First, the speed of light is calculated by a measured distance divided by time.

D/T

The "speed" that the Earth rotates or "spins" is divided by "curved time."

S/C

The "speed" an object falls is calculated by distance divided by time, times "curved time."

(D/T) x C

In String Theory, the speed of light is arbitrarily given a minimum value of 1 light second, (thanks to Einstein's energy equation being geared in seconds.) All things have spin. The smallest (or minimum) spin is called a spinor. If the minimum speed of light is multiplied by the minimum spin, the minimum value for gravity (a graviton) is described.

(D min/T min) x (S min/C min)

In my First Flash model, the minimum value for light is NOT 1 second, it's 1 day. (refer to Genesis 1:1-5) Spin is more appropriately measured in fractions or multiples of a day. When the value for spin equals or exceeds 1 the value for light will equal the value for spin.

Let me illustrate:

Lets say we observe light travel for 12 hours, (half of a day) here's what happens.

(1light day min/1 day min) x (0.5 spin/0.5 curved days) = .5 resultant LD/.5 resultant days

0.5 light days per 0.5 days
We actually observe distance by resultant distance and time by curved time.

If we observe light for one day this is what happens.

(1 light day/1 day) x (1 spin/1 curved day) = 1 resultant light day/1 resultant day

1 light day per 1 day

When spin exceeds 1 a phase transition occurs.

(1.01 LD/1.01 D) x (1.01 spin/1.01 curved days) = 1.0201 resultant LD/1.0201 resultant D
1.0201 light days per 1.01 days (acceleration begins to occur)

This effect is actually observed in nature and is coined as the "Pioneer Anomaly."

So, back to the universe age question. What is the actual travel time for light with a resultant distance of 13,730,000,000 light years? A simple short cut method works like this:

Divide the resultant light year distance by the number of rotations per year (365.25). Then find the square root.

sq rt (dist/365.25)

The answer is 6131.1248 years. The measurement was in 2008, dating the year of creation at 4124.1248 B.C. Coincidentally or not, Anstey arrived at the same conclusion of 4124 B.C.

A new component to the First Flash model reveals a significant event relating to the first Sabbath of creation. If all of the stars and galaxies were created on the fourth day, the light from the closest stars (outside the solar system) are first visible at the end of the sixth day at twilight. Light from objects furthest away can not be seen until the very end of the seventh day at twilight. Jewish tradition states that the Sabbath begins at the appearance of the first three stars and Ellen White claims that all of the stars "sang together" on the first Sabbath of creation. These points do not prove anything but are very interesting none the less.

JCS, thank you. That was fun. I love stuff like that. Although I suspect some people might object to a 4124 BC creation date. It messes up the calculations based on birthdays and major events (the flood and the exodus, in particular). At any rate, does it make sense to believe God created the stars with their light already here?

Unfortunately, I'd have to say, not really. Light contains so much information about things that if the light was "already there" the creator would have to implace false information. It's just not very realistic. As far as the date is concerned, it depends on how accurate the WMAP measurements actually are and when they were made. If I remember correctly, the 13.73 billion ly measurement was plus or minus 120 million ly. At 13.85 billion ly, the year changes to 4150.86 B.C. At 13.61 billion ly, the year 4097.27 B.C. is generated. Assuming 4004 B.C. is the accurate year, Earth's distance from the Light Horizon (on the year 2008) would have been 13,319,725,720 light years instead of the 13.73 bil. (It's still possible.)

Welcome JCS to the forum!

I do enjoy science and appreciate your explanation about light and how to calculate time versus distance. I still have to digest the equations but I think it is quite powerful that by dividing a day instead of second, that the result is quite close to todays date. Dealing with such huge numbers, it is very understandable that there's an error gap to take into account. And your result is fairly close to 4004 BC.

Are we supposing that God created everything when He created the earth? Couldn't it be possible that the creation of Gen 1 could have been only for this galaxy? Don't we think that the angels where already created before the earth was created? Isn't that what EGW is saying?

BTW. what do you suppose the light was in Gen 1:3? Quarks or Bozons(for Photon)? There wasn't any sun, nor moon, and supposively no stars at that time, so the light had to come from some type of particle as refered in Prov 8:26 as "primal dust" or "highest part of the dust".

The hebrew word for Light is H216 which means light reflecting something and it is usually from heavenly bodies(stars, moon, sun), or from an object like a lamp. So the light has to come from a source which could be as well as coming from Jehovah Himself Is 2:5, Is 60:19, 20; Ps 104:2; Rev 21:23; 22:5.

H216 derives from H215 which means to be (causative, make) luminous.

JCS, if God created the stars on the fourth day with the light already here, wouldn't that fact be evident in the light? Otherwise, if He created the stars on the fourth day and then the light began the long journey here, wouldn't it still be on its way?

Following how scripture and the spirit of prophecy describe Heaven, it seems likely that God has other created works beyond the known visible universe.

Based on what I've studied in Ezekiel 1, there are four key interconnected physical properties to the visible universe. (cyclical space, cyclical time, curved space, curved time) Above the four "creatures" and "wheels" is the "sea of glass". I believe this to be the light horizon. Above this expanse is the "throne of sapphire", Heaven.

According to Ellen White, the throne of God is the universe Heaven. If God's throne is a universe in it's self, there may be at least 24 other individual universes surrounding it. (Rev. 4:4) "Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones..." Ellen makes another interesting point in GC 677: "-suns and stars and systems, all in their appointed order circling the throne of Deity." According to the First Flash model, we exist in a rotating universe and this universe is orbiting something else beyond it. (probably Heaven)

I've heard of James Burr's galaxy conjecture before. It's an interesting idea except that it entertains contradictions in the properties of light and it contradicts Genesis 1:14-19, and 2:1-4. The reason behind Burr's galaxy conjecture is the supposed overwhelming scientific evidence that the visible universe is billions of years old. The First Flash model effectively destroys Big Bang cosmology completely. I prefer to rely on reasonable facts.

The light refered to in Gen 1:3-4 is light emitted directly from God. As to what kind light it was, very likely angular gravitational energy. (It's the reverse of E=mc*c.) Angular gravitational energy turns into matter the instant it comes into contact with anything. This energy would generate a sea of relic neutrinos like what's been observed when studying the light horizon.

"JCS, if God created the stars on the fourth day with the light already here, wouldn't that fact be evident in the light? Otherwise, if He created the stars on the fourth day and then the light began the long journey here, wouldn't it still be on its way?"

Sorry I skipped your question.

If continuous streams of light were created between the created stars and Earth, the light wouldn't have actually originated from the stars at all. Huge amounts of information can be gleaned from the properties of light. All of that information observed within light that's "already there" is nonfactual data because it relates to events that never even happened. It would be like watching a fictional movie about someone being an adult billions of years before they were actually born. I'm simply unwilling to buy into that kinda stuff.

Using the First Flash model, the rate of time for light changes with distance. Plus the mass in the universe is expanding very quickly. I should also note, that in this model, the visible universe was only 32 light days in diameter at the begining of the fourth day. An illustration would greatly improve my explaination for the properties of light in this model.

I should go ahead and try to illustrate the effects of light on the first week (according to the FF model).

(cyclical space/ cyclical time) x (curved space/ curved time)

Day 1: 1/1 x 1/1 =1 light day radius per 1 day resultant time
Day 2: 2/2 x 2/2 =4 ld r per 4d
Day 3: 3/3 x 3/3 =9 ld r per 9d
Day 4: 4/4 x 4/4 =16 ld r per 16d
Day 5: 5/5 x 5x5 =25 ld r per 25d
Day 6: 6/6 x 6x6 =36 ld r per 36d
Day 7: 7/7 x 7/7 =49 ld r per 49d
Day 8: 8/8 x 8/8 =64 ld r per 64d

The furthest stars created on the fourth day are 16 light days away from Earth. The light emmited from those stars travels the same way as the universe itself is expanding. So after the fifth day, light from the most distant stars is now 15 light days from Earth. On the sixth day, the light is now 12 light days away. By the begining of the seventh day, that light is still 7 light days out. At the end of the seventh day at twilight, the light reaches Earth (traveling 16 light days distance in 4 days time).

Would it matter if the earth, in its void and formless state (water covered rock), was created "who knows how long ago" (billions of years ago)?

I'm not sure if it would or not. My understanding of Genesis 1 is that timespace itself was created on the first day via the pressence of light from God. Matter is, in essence, squared light. Reverse engineering the question, if you fully remove all forms of radiation from matter, time stops completely and matter can not move or even be seen.