Adventists believe that the book of Daniel is no longer sealed based on Revelation 5 and 10 where John refers to the 'book' or 'scroll' as being unsealed and open. Adventists interpret this book as the prophecies Daniel. We have made the assumption that since the little book is unsealed, the thunders in the same chapter are unsealed as well. But let’s look briefly at that assumption and ask ourselves the question, are the seven thunders the same as the little book, or, are they a separate part of the little book?

Ellen White makes the following comment on the thunders:



According to the search I did this is the only quote where Ellen White comments directly on the seven thunders. This quote clearly places the thunders in the future and says they are undisclosed or sealed. The 'problem' with reading it that way is that it would appear to contradict her statement in the very same paragraph where she makes a direct connection between the little book and the thunders.

The apparent contradiction though is explained by reading the full paragraph. In the quote below I've underlined the past tense and italicized the future tense:



So here is how I interpret her statements above: In 1843 and 1844 the first and second angel's messages were given and were time dependant. That was the unsealing of the little book, "the message in relation to time." However, all three messages are to be repeated in power, particularly during the latter rain. The thunders are therefore not the same part of Daniel and have not been unsealed. "These relate to future events which will be disclosed in their order. Daniel shall stand in his lot at the end of the days. John sees the little book unsealed. Then Daniel's prophecies have their proper place in the first, second, and third angels' messages to be given to the world." {7BC 971.4}

Mark, how does the following insight fit into it?

7BC 971
The special light given to John which was expressed in the seven thunders was a delineation of events which would transpire under the first and second angels' messages. It was not best for the people to know these things, for their faith must necessarily be tested. In the order of God most wonderful and advanced truths would be proclaimed. The first and second angels' messages were to be proclaimed, but no further light was to be revealed before these messages had done their specific work. This is represented by the angel standing with one foot on the sea, proclaiming with a most solemn oath that time should be no longer. {7BC 971.6}

Mark , I just love Leslie Hardinge's book The Lamb, God's Greatest Gift because he keeps it so focused on reveling Jesus. I would just like to share Hardinge's thoughts on the verse.

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MM, I've poured over that part of the quote to many times and my conclusion is always the same - the part I quoted can't be placed in the past inspite of the part you quoted. They both are true and should be given their weight.

Crater, I like Harding too. My dad has loaned me two of his series - a couple dozen tapes - and I've listened to some of them more than once. I think though that seven thunders indicates more than a single date. If you look at the only commentary on it by the SOP above, she seems to be of the view that they relate to 'events' that will be disclosed in their order. But Harding and her are both agreed IMO that they remain sealed.

The seven thunders --
EGW gives us the clue
First and second angel's messages....

Just like in Daniel the Bible gives us the names of he first symbols. (Head of gold = Babylon, ram and goat represent Persia and grecia) Knowing this we have been able to figure out the following symbols as well.

Back to the seven thunders.

Thunder One -- First angel's message

Thunder Two -- Second angel's message

Thunder Three -- Third angel's message

(Now Rev. 14 has more angels)

Thunder Four -- a fourth angel AND THE EARTH WAS REAPED
It's not a message of Jesus coming to the temple, no door to the temple is being opened as in Rev. 11:19 -- It says Christ "came out of the temple" yes the heavenly temple-- to REAP THE EARTH.
In Rev. 14:14 they have come OUT of the temple-- probation IS CLOSED, there is no more cleansing for anyone.

THUNDER Five -- a fifth angel

So let's look at the LAST angels in Rev. 14 more closely in these next verses and see what they have to say:


Two angels come forth and this is not reaping in any positive sense, this is reaping DESTRUCTION.

Now the angel in Rev. 14:17 the fifth angel or thunder, may well be the one who gives the message that the living wicked are destroyed at the second coming -- but that is not the final death, thus he is joined by the next angel, a sixth thunder, with power over fire... .


We need to let the BIBLE explain --
Why would the scriptures specifically mention that the angel came "from the altar" and had power over fire?

Revelation mentions the altar in relation to the fifth seal when a cry comes from the altar asking God to avenge the blood of the martyrs. These persecutors throughout history are all dead in their graves when Christ comes to reap the earth in the preceeding message, but now they too, along with all who rejected God's grace and salvation and filled their cups with wickedness receive their final reward.

The winepress filled with the "grapes" is trodden outside the city. WHAT CITY?
This city is a reference to the New Jerusalem which comes down from heaven, the holy city outside of which are the wicked who have been raised and now stand before the great white throne of God. Rev. 22:17
The angel has power over fire, and Rev. 20 will give you more details as to this final judgment of fire which puts an end to all sin for all eternity.

So, all three judgements are described in Rev. 14
-- the two executive judgments along with the Investigative or pre-advent judgment in Rev. 14:6-7 are:

1. Rev. 14:10 "The hour of His judgement has come" announcing the investigative judgment
2. Rev.14:14-17 The second coming
3. Rev. 14:17-19 The white throne judgment in Rev. 20

It brings together Paul's words, that "all must stand before the judgement seat of Christ". All -- all who have ever lived.
We want OUR names to come up in the investigative judgment, for it is promised:
Rev. 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

The investigative judgment deals with all who have professed salvation.
The second coming reaps ALL who genuinely partook of God's salvation throughout earth's history.
The living "lost" die (but this is not yet the second death), the dead wicked are not raised till 1000 years later.
The cases of the lost are "investigated during the 1000 years)
The great white throne judgment, which is the greatest of all the judgments, comes after the 1000 years. It is then that all the wicked receive their judgment and "reward" -- not at the second coming when most of them are already dead any way.

The last, or seventh thunder?
would then mark the end of sin and the rebirth of eternal perfection.

Dedication, are you suggesting a dual application? Ellen seems to say the seven thunders were fulfilled during the Millerite Movement leading up to the Great Disappointment. "The special light given to John which was expressed in the seven thunders was a delineation of events which would transpire under the first and second angels' messages."

Why would it be a dual application?

There are SEVEN THUNDERS, not just two.
EGW points us to the starting time (the thunders began when the timelines ceased as pointed out in Rev. 10)

Rev. 11:9 hears thunders when the temple is opened and the ark is seen.
Rev. 16:18 hears thunders after the seventh plague.
Rev. 14:2 hears thunder when the redeemed are on the sea of glas.

Those seven thunders started to rumble when the first angel sounded his message that the hour of judgment has come, and they will continue to rumble until judgement is fully executed and finished.


"The first and second angels' messages were to be proclaimed, but no further light was to be revealed before these messages had done their specific work." {1MR 99.3}
So they reveal "further light" than the first and second angels message.

I'm not ready to blab but, one should be aware of the fact that the "little book" in Revelation has its origin in Ezekiel chapter 3 as a scroll that is eaten. (The New International version translates the little book in Revelation as a little scroll, unlike KJV, AMP, and NASB.)

Dedication, do you think the following passage should be taken to include the Millerite Movement and our day?

The special light given to John which was expressed in the seven thunders was a delineation of events which would transpire under the first and second angels' messages. It was not best for the people to know these things, for their faith must necessarily be tested. In the order of God most wonderful and advanced truths would be proclaimed. The first and second angels' messages were to be proclaimed, but no further light was to be revealed before these messages had done their specific work. This is represented by the angel standing with one foot on the sea, proclaiming with a most solemn oath that time should be no longer. {7BC 971.6}

No, I'm not suggesting ANY DUAL application.
It's not a repeat but a progression.
Just like all the sevens in Revelation.

They all start at one point and then progress to the close of time. That's how the historicist way of interpreting prophecy works.

First church in John's day --> seventh church at end of time
First seal in John's day --> seventh seal at end of time
First trumpet --> first physical judgement upon a nation claiming but in practise denying their link with God --> last trumpet at the end of time when the time for judgment of whole world has come.
First plague at the beginning of time of trouble --> seventh plague which is at the very end.
All have a specific starting point and as each of the seven unfold we move down the scenes of time till we come to the seventh which lands us in the scenes of the end.


Thus with the seven thunders.
They appear in Revelation chapter 10 which deals with the 1844 movement. That is their beginning point.

The first thunder is the first angel's message as the judgment hour is announced "the hour of His judgment is come". It began to sound with Miller's preaching. (Though he didn't fully understand the full message)

If they would have understood the seven thunders they would never have thought Christ would come in 1844 as the thunders had only started then, there were still more to come.

The second thunder is the second angel's message as people had to chose between mainline churches or following the message.

The third angel's message started just after 1844 as the first message was grasped with fuller understanding, the breach in the commandments was being repaired.

Those messages are STILL sounding with increasing clarity for all true believers.
The point in the quote you give -- it tells us where to look for the meaning of the seven thunders.

The Millerites never understood the seven thunders. They thought the first angel's message was the coming of Christ, but those who passed the test of faith discovered that the first angel was announcing the investigative judgment prior to the second coming, not the second coming itself for there were more angels to follow. (More thunders)

Revelation 14 doesn't stop with three angel's --
If you read my post you'll find it's not just "Miller's day" or "our day"
The seven thunders take us from the 1844 movement clear down to the end of the 1000 years.

Their chief emphases is on God's JUDGMENT
Starting with the investigative judgment and the 1844 movement and ending with the last great judgment after the 1000 years -- the Great White Throne judgement of Rev. 20