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Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #122577
01/04/10 12:39 AM
01/04/10 12:39 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Would you mind answering my questions?

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #122582
01/04/10 01:11 AM
01/04/10 01:11 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Regarding the investigative judgment, it's the same as with Moses. God knows the heart, and based on that, answers the question of whether the person would be happy in heaven or not, the same as I explained for Moses.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #122590
01/04/10 03:37 PM
01/04/10 03:37 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Thank you. But I'm still not sure what you believe about repentance. When do you think it is necessary to repent? That is, to actually say to God, "Lord, I have sinned against you. I failed to keep my eyes on Jesus and I was irritable and impatient with my wife just now. I am so sorry. I've made things right with her. So, please forgive me and empower me to stay connected to Jesus from now on so I can be kind and loving and patient like Jesus at all times, which is pleasing to you." When do you think it is necessary to repent like this?

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #122596
01/04/10 04:48 PM
01/04/10 04:48 PM
G
gordonb1  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec

Hi Mike,

Repentance is required, even for King David, a man after God's own heart.

Without repentance there can be no reconciliation, and even God leads us to repentance through His goodness. (Romans 2:4)

"The life we live is to be one of continual repentance and humility. We need to repent constantly, that we may be constantly victorious. When we have true humility, we have victory". 7BC 959 - MS 92, 1901.

Re: I have some questions [Re: gordonb1] #122605
01/05/10 02:11 AM
01/05/10 02:11 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Originally Posted By: MM
Thank you. But I'm still not sure what you believe about repentance. When do you think it is necessary to repent? That is, to actually say to God, "Lord, I have sinned against you. I failed to keep my eyes on Jesus and I was irritable and impatient with my wife just now. I am so sorry. I've made things right with her. So, please forgive me and empower me to stay connected to Jesus from now on so I can be kind and loving and patient like Jesus at all times, which is pleasing to you." When do you think it is necessary to repent like this?


"Repentance" in the Greek consists of the words "meta" and "noya" which means "after" "mind," the idea being that before you thought one way, but now another. One needs to repent when one is aligned in a different direction from God.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #122616
01/05/10 04:11 PM
01/05/10 04:11 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
It sounds like you're saying repentance restores people to the mind of Jesus. What do you mean by "one needs to repent when"? Are people like Moses misaligned when they sin? If so, do they "need" to receive and experience the gift of repentance before the relationship their sin severed can be restored? If so, do you believe the following insights explain what you think "needs" to happen?

Quote:
It is true that repentance does precede the forgiveness of sins; for it is only the broken and contrite heart that will feel the need of a Saviour. {SC 26.1} The conditions of obtaining mercy of God are simple and just and reasonable. {SC 37.2}

Explicit instruction is given concerning this matter. Confession of sin, whether public or private, should be heartfelt and freely expressed. {SC 37.4}

Repentance includes sorrow for sin and a turning away from it. We shall not renounce sin unless we see its sinfulness; until we turn away from it in heart, there will be no real change in the life. {SC 23.2}

True confession is always of a specific character, and acknowledges particular sins. They may be of such a nature as to be brought before God only; they may be wrongs that should be confessed to individuals who have suffered injury through them; or they may be of a public character, and should then be as publicly confessed. But all confession should be definite and to the point, acknowledging the very sins of which you are guilty. {SC 38.1}

Confession will not be acceptable to God without sincere repentance and reformation. There must be decided changes in the life; everything offensive to God must be put away. This will be the result of genuine sorrow for sin. The work that we have to do on our part is plainly set before us: "Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before Mine eyes; cease to do evil; learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow." Isaiah 1:16, 17. "If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die." Ezekiel 33:15. Paul says, speaking of the work of repentance: "Ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter." 2 Corinthians 7:11. {SC 39.1}

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #122619
01/05/10 04:21 PM
01/05/10 04:21 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Originally Posted By: MM
It sounds like you're saying repentance restores people to the mind of Jesus.


This isn't what I was saying, but I'm not averse to this. Sounds like a good thought.

Quote:
What do you mean by "one needs to repent when"?


I mean that if X is the case, one needs to repent.

Quote:
Are people like Moses misaligned when they sin? If so, do they "need" to receive and experience the gift of repentance before the relationship their sin severed can be restored? If so, do you believe the following insights explain what you think "needs" to happen?


Being misaligned is simply another way of saying one is rebelling. If one is rebelling against God, one needs to be stopped, in order to be restored to harmony with God.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #122631
01/05/10 06:30 PM
01/05/10 06:30 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Do you believe the following insights explain what you think "needs" to happen? (see quotes above)

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #122632
01/05/10 06:31 PM
01/05/10 06:31 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Do people like Moses "rebel" when they sin?

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #122639
01/05/10 11:41 PM
01/05/10 11:41 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
Do you believe the following insights explain what you think "needs" to happen? (see quotes above)


This is talking about when a sinner first comes to Christ, which wasn't Moses' situation.

Quote:
Do people like Moses "rebel" when they sin?


This is too vague a question to give a blanket answer. Moses, and people like him, have free will, so it's possible that they could rebel when they sin.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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