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Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #123085
01/25/10 06:06 PM
01/25/10 06:06 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I think his sin was of the nature of a mistake, of not controlling his emotions, as opposed to a sin of intentionally acting contrary to God's will.

When he lost his temper, he, of course, realized he had done wrong.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #123096
01/26/10 01:42 AM
01/26/10 01:42 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Was it necessary for him to repent? Please explain your answer.

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #123100
01/26/10 04:16 AM
01/26/10 04:16 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Necessary in what way? (i.e., to accomplish what?)

It was natural for him to repent. If you lose your temper with someone, don't you repent?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #123104
01/26/10 03:51 PM
01/26/10 03:51 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Yes, when I lose my temper I am quick to repent. Why? For two reasons: 1) I am genuinely sorry for misrepresenting Jesus and for offending God and the person or people affected, and 2) the law requires it.

Do you think the law requires people like Moses to repent? If not, why not? If so, why? Please explain your answer. Thank you.

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #123108
01/26/10 07:53 PM
01/26/10 07:53 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
What law are you thinking of here?

I think reason 1) is excellent, but reason 2) is a poor reason. 1) should be sufficient, right?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #123112
01/27/10 02:48 AM
01/27/10 02:48 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Tom, I believe the law demands, requires many things. The following passages articulates some of them. Please note the role repentance plays.

"Christ was to die as man's substitute. Man was a criminal under the sentence of death for transgression of the law of God, as a traitor, a rebel; hence a substitute for man must die as a malefactor, because He stood in the place of the traitors, with all their treasured sins upon His divine soul. It was not enough that Jesus should die in order to fully meet the demands of the broken law, but He died a shameful death. {5BC 1127.4}

"The many would not comply with the conditions required of them that they might be partakers of His great salvation. They would prefer sin and transgression of the law of God rather than repentance and obedience, relying by faith upon the merits of the sacrifice offered. {SR 48.2}

"Multitudes have been living in transgression of God's law, and now He in mercy calls them to obey its sacred precepts. All who will put away their sins by repentance toward God and faith in Christ are offered pardon. {PP 102.1}

"Christ satisfied the demands of the law in His human nature. He bore the curse of the law for the sinner, made an atonement for him, "that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Genuine faith appropriates the righteousness of Christ, and the sinner is made an overcomer with Christ; for he is made a partaker of the divine nature, and thus divinity and humanity are combined. {FW 93.3}

"By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ, and the Lord places the obedience of His Son to the sinner's account. Christ's righteousness is accepted in place of man's failure, and God receives, pardons, justifies, the repentant, believing soul, treats him as though he were righteous, and loves him as He loves His Son. This is how faith is accounted righteousness; and the pardoned soul goes on from grace to grace, from light to a greater light. {FW 101.1}

"Does God turn from justice in showing mercy to the sinner? No; God cannot dishonor His law by suffering it to be transgressed with impunity. Under the new covenant, perfect obedience is the condition of life. If the sinner repents and confesses his sins, he will find pardon. By Christ's sacrifice in his behalf, forgiveness is secured for him. Christ has satisfied the demands of the law for every repentant, believing sinner. {AG 138.4}

" Jesus suffered the extreme penalty of the law for our transgression, and justice was fully satisfied. The law is not abrogated; it has not lost one jot of its force. Instead, it stands forth in holy dignity, Christ's death on the cross testifying to its immutability. Its demands have been met, its authority maintained. {HP 15.3}

"The gospel of Christ is the Good News of grace, or favor, by which man may be released from the condemnation of sin and enabled to render obedience to the law of God. The gospel points to the moral code as a rule of life. That law, by its demands for undeviating obedience, is continually pointing the sinner to the gospel for pardon and peace. {2MCP 563.2}

"God always demanded good works, the law demands it, but because man placed himself in sin where his good works were valueless, Jesus' righteousness alone can avail. {OHC 122.2}

"God demands of us perfect obedience to His law-- the expression of His character. "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law" (Rom. 3:31). This law is the echo of God's voice, saying to us, Holier, yes, holier still. Desire the fullness of the grace of Christ; yea, long--hunger and thirst-- after righteousness. The promise is, "Ye shall be filled." Let your heart be filled with an intense longing for this righteousness, the work of which God's Word declares is peace, and its effect quietness and assurance forever. {3SM 202.5}

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #123114
01/27/10 03:25 AM
01/27/10 03:25 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
MM, none of these things you quoted is the law. These are all statements from the SOP. I'm asking you what law is it that you see that demands repentance.

When I see the expression "the law," I think of the 10 commandments. Did you have this in mind when you said the law demands repentance? Or something else.

I'm asking what you had in mind by "the law."


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #123118
01/27/10 04:12 PM
01/27/10 04:12 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Please refer to the law named in the many passages I posted above. That is the law I'm referring to. Did you happen to notice the role of repentance as it relates to the law? Did you see where the law requires repentance? Or, do you think the passages above say repentance is not required?

PS - If the law requires love, is it difficult to believe it also requires repentance?

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #123119
01/27/10 04:20 PM
01/27/10 04:20 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Perhaps the following passages can help clarify the role of repentance as it relates to the requirements of the law:

The sinner may err, but he is not cast off without mercy. His only hope, however, is repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. It is the Father's prerogative to forgive our transgressions and sins, because Christ has taken upon Himself our guilt and reprieved us, imputing to us His own righteousness. His sacrifice satisfies fully the demands of justice. {FW 103.3}

Jesus suffered the extreme penalty of the law for our transgression, and justice was fully satisfied. The law is not abrogated; it has not lost one jot of its force. Instead, it stands forth in holy dignity, Christ's death on the cross testifying to its immutability. Its demands have been met, its authority maintained. {HP 15.3}

Justice demands that sin be not merely pardoned, but the death penalty must be executed. God, in the gift of His only-begotten Son, met both these requirements. By dying in man's stead, Christ exhausted the penalty and provided a pardon. {AG 139.2}

God requires that we confess our sins, and humble our hearts before Him; but at the same time we should have confidence in Him as a tender Father, who will not forsake those who put their trust in Him. . . . God does not give us up because of our sins. We may make mistakes, and grieve His Spirit; but when we repent, and come to Him with contrite hearts, He will not turn us away. There are hindrances to be removed. Wrong feelings have been cherished, and there have been pride, self-sufficiency, impatience, and murmurings. All these separate us from God. Sins must be confessed; there must be a deeper work of grace in the heart. {AG 139.3}

PS - Repentance is required to restore sinners to obedience free of condemnation. Otherwise the law considers them guilty and worthy of death.

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #123122
01/27/10 07:16 PM
01/27/10 07:16 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
MM, what law do you have in mind? The 10 commandments? Or something else?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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