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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#123730
03/01/10 01:10 AM
03/01/10 01:10 AM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Mike,
Listen to what is said here:
And as Christ intercedes for us, the Spirit works upon our hearts, drawing forth prayer and penitence, praise and thanksgiving. The gratitude which flows from human lips is the result of the Spirit striking the chords of the soul, awakening holy music. The prayer and praise and confession of God's people ascend as sacrifices to the heavenly sanctuary. But they ascend not in spotless purity. Passing through the corrupt channels of humanity, they are so defiled that unless purified by the righteousness of the great High Priest, they are not acceptable by God. Christ gathers into the censer the prayers, the praise, and the sacrifices of his people, and with these he puts the merits of his spotless righteousness. Then, perfumed with the incense of Christ's propitiation, our prayers, wholly and entirely acceptable, rise before God, and gracious answers are returned. {YI, April 16, 1903 par. 11, 12}
Even what is the result of the operation of the Holy Spirit is described as defiled and not acceptable by God, unless purified by the righteousness of Christ.
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Rosangela]
#123744
03/01/10 05:32 PM
03/01/10 05:32 PM
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OP
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Southwest USA
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Rosangela, thank you for redirecting my attention to the passage you quoted above. Again, however, I get the impression you believe Ellen used the word "defiled" in this context to mean the righteous results of abiding in Jesus, of walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, are sinful and unacceptable to the Father as is. If so, in what sense do you believe they are sinful? And, does God expect us to repent of them? Or, is it possible "defiled" does not in this context mean the same thing as sinful and something requiring repentance?
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#123746
03/01/10 05:53 PM
03/01/10 05:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Mike, I certainly do not believe our prayers, our praise, or our confession require repentance. But I do believe our sinful condition defiles them and makes them unacceptable to God without Christ's mediation. In some way and in some degree they are tainted with our sinfulness, with our selfishness. Our praise requires Christ's mediation to be accepted, while the angels' praise doesn't. In both cases the praise is prompted by the Holy Spirit, but there is obviously a difference between our praise and theirs.
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Rosangela]
#123747
03/01/10 06:40 PM
03/01/10 06:40 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Would this apply to the 144,000 after Christ has stopped His work as Intercessor?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Tom]
#123751
03/01/10 06:58 PM
03/01/10 06:58 PM
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Posts: 6,154
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We have no information about that, but I can't see how or why it wouldn't apply to them.
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Rosangela]
#123758
03/02/10 03:32 AM
03/02/10 03:32 AM
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OP
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Rosangela, the idea that the righteous results of abiding in Jesus, our "righteousness and true holiness", is tainted with sin but doesn't require repentance is somewhat confusing. Where in the Bible is this idea articulated?
Also, when the Bible says, "He that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still", is it possible it means their righteousness and holiness is still tainted with sin?
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#123762
03/02/10 01:19 PM
03/02/10 01:19 PM
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Brazil
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Mike, there is no way I can repent from having selfishness inwrought in my very being. This has come to me as an inheritance. All I can do is to deplore this condition and to long for being set free from it. However, I can repent from my selfish deeds. It's different.
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Rosangela]
#123764
03/02/10 04:07 PM
03/02/10 04:07 PM
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In what sense, though, is selfishness inwrought? In what sense do we inherit selfishness? If, as you say, it does not mean we are guilty of sinning and it does not mean we are required to repent, what, then, does it mean? If we have Jesus inwrought in us, if we have the principles of righteousness and true holiness inwrought in us, is everything we do tainted with sin? Or, does inwrought righteousness trump inwrought selfishness? Ellen wrote: Our minds and characters must become as the mind and character of Christ. Selfishness is inwrought in our very being. It has come to us as an inheritance, and has been cherished by many as a precious treasure. No special work for God can be accomplished until self and selfishness are overcome. {LHU 326.4}
To all, old and young, the word of the Lord is: Let the truth of God be inwrought in mind and soul. Let your prayer be, "O Lord, preserve my soul, that I shall not dishonor Thee." {ML 205.6}
It is not enough that we have the theory of the truth; its principles must be inwrought in the soul, and exemplified in the life, or we shall fall a prey to the delusions prepared for the last days. {OHC 360.5}
If this truth is inwrought in the soul, it will manifest itself in the countenance and demeanor, in a calm, noble self-possession and peace which the Christian alone can possess. {5T 401.1}
Let your souls answer the question, Does my character correspond to the qualifications essential that I may receive a passport to the mansions Christ has prepared for those who are fitted for them? Holiness must be inwrought in our character. {TM 446.2}
Oh, that every man, woman, and child who deals with human minds, may have the truth inwrought in the soul, that it may be revealed in spirit, in word in character, and in action! {CSW 110.1}
Christianity--how many there are who do not know what it is! It is not something put on the outside. It is a life inwrought with the life of Jesus. It means that we are wearing the robe of Christ's righteousness. {AG 57.6} Also, when the Bible says, "He that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still", is it possible it means their righteousness and holiness is still tainted with sin? Ellen wrote: If there is not pollution of mind in yourself, all the surrounding pollution cannot taint or defile you. {2MCP 803.3}
Though He had no taint of sin upon His character, yet He condescended to connect our fallen human nature with His divinity. By thus taking humanity, He honored humanity. Having taken our fallen nature, he showed what it might become, by accepting the ample provision He has made for it, and by becoming partaker of the divine nature. {3SM 134.2}
Because of the ransom paid for him, man, by his own choice, by obedience, may accomplish the design of God, and through the grace given of God bear the image that was first impressed upon him, and afterwards lost through the fall. {3SM 135.1}
It is the privilege of every believer in Christ to possess Christ's nature, a nature far above that which Adam forfeited by transgression. {UL 18.3}
Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God's commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression. They testify to their love of Christ by obeying all His precepts. {6BC 1118.10} She makes it clear that in Christ and like Christ everyone will have "a nature far above that which Adam forfeited by transgression" and will "reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression". And yet it sounds like you're saying such "righteousness and true holiness" is tainted with sin and selfishness. She likens such righteousness to Adam's prefall righteousness and to Jesus' righteousness. I don't hear you affirming this idea. Do you see why I'm having a hard time reconciling your ideas with what Ellen wrote about it? Where in the Bible does it say the righteous results of abiding in Jesus is tainted with sin and doesn't require repentance?
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#123773
03/02/10 06:27 PM
03/02/10 06:27 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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If, as you say, it does not mean we are guilty of sinning and it does not mean we are required to repent, what, then, does it mean? I didn't say we aren't guilty of sinning. I've just said it does not make sense to repent from our prayers, confessions and praises to God. Unless you repent from the imperfection which attends them. Why do your prayers need Christ's mediation to be accepted by the Father? Do all of them need Christ's mediation or just some of them? Will there ever be a time before probation closes in which you won't need Christ's mediation for your prayers to be accepted? If not, will you need it until the last moment prior to the close of probation but will no longer need it after probation closes?
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Rosangela]
#123783
03/03/10 02:32 AM
03/03/10 02:32 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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If the prayers and so forth of the 144,000 pass through corrupt channels and are not accepted of God, and Christ is not available to make the prayers acceptable, what then?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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