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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: vastergotland]
#125060
04/29/10 06:29 PM
04/29/10 06:29 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Thomas,
Just one question. The main gift of the Spirit is love. Is your claim that your love is totally pure, 100% free from selfishness?
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Rosangela]
#125062
04/29/10 06:57 PM
04/29/10 06:57 PM
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Wiki: [Total depravity] is also advocated to various degrees by many Protestant confessions of faith and catechisms, including those of Lutheranism,[1] Arminianism,[2] and Calvinism.[3] I liked this illustration: This idea can be illustrated by a glass of wine with a few drops of deadly poison in it: Although not all the liquid is poison, all the liquid is poisoned. In the same way, while not all of human nature is depraved, all human nature is totally affected by depravity.
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Rosangela]
#125064
04/29/10 07:44 PM
04/29/10 07:44 PM
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Active Member 2011
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Of course not. Such perfection is the prerogative of God, it would seem to me. A more interesting question is, why would it have to be? Of course there are major benefits to me and all of those who know me if my love was pure. But would Jesus blood covering what is lacking really be noticed by my family? So if this isnt important for them, is it important for God, that what is lacking in my actions and attitude to life gets covered by the blood of Jesus? After I, as a person, have been saved through the blood of Jesus, do my recieving and expressing the fruits of the Spirit require further and perhaps special covering? Whatever for, I ask.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Rosangela]
#125065
04/29/10 07:49 PM
04/29/10 07:49 PM
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Active Member 2011
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
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Wiki: [Total depravity] is also advocated to various degrees by many Protestant confessions of faith and catechisms, including those of Lutheranism,[1] Arminianism,[2] and Calvinism.[3] I liked this illustration: This idea can be illustrated by a glass of wine with a few drops of deadly poison in it: Although not all the liquid is poison, all the liquid is poisoned. In the same way, while not all of human nature is depraved, all human nature is totally affected by depravity. To apply this to our question at hand: The wine is poisoned, but through the blood of Jesus I have recieved the antidote which will ensure my survival of said poison. The Spirit then gives me a bread, which coming into contact with the wine when I chew it becomes tainted with the poison. However, the amount of poison does not change, nor its kind. It only gets spread to the previously fresh bread while I am eating it. For what reason would the antidote already given suddenly be insufficient? It was enough for my salvation while the poison was only in the wine, why would it be lacking when the poison spread into the bread aswell?
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: vastergotland]
#125066
04/29/10 07:56 PM
04/29/10 07:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Of course not. Such perfection is the prerogative of God, it would seem to me. A more interesting question is, why would it have to be? Of course there are major benefits to me and all of those who know me if my love was pure. But would Jesus blood covering what is lacking really be noticed by my family? So if this isnt important for them, is it important for God, that what is lacking in my actions and attitude to life gets covered by the blood of Jesus? After I, as a person, have been saved through the blood of Jesus, do my recieving and expressing the fruits of the Spirit require further and perhaps special covering? Whatever for, I ask. Thomas, Selfishness is sin. The fact that it is unconscious doesn't mean that it ceases to be a sin. Doesn't Christ's blood cover our unconscious sins?
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: vastergotland]
#125067
04/29/10 08:00 PM
04/29/10 08:00 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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To apply this to our question at hand: The wine is poisoned, but through the blood of Jesus I have recieved the antidote which will ensure my survival of said poison. The Spirit then gives me a bread, which coming into contact with the wine when I chew it becomes tainted with the poison. However, the amount of poison does not change, nor its kind. It only gets spread to the previously fresh bread while I am eating it. For what reason would the antidote already given suddenly be insufficient? It was enough for my salvation while the poison was only in the wine, why would it be lacking when the poison spread into the bread aswell? No, the comparison here is not that you drink the wine - your nature is compared to the wine. So, the poison is removed, but gradually, not all at once. The transformation of our sinful nature is gradual.
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Rosangela]
#125068
04/29/10 08:12 PM
04/29/10 08:12 PM
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Active Member 2011
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
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Selfishness that by default attach to anything a human touch, if you are unable to choose for or against it, I think it would fall within the category of original sin. What I mean is that Jesus blood does not need to be applied anew for each time original sin contaminates something new in the person. It was done once and it will suffice.
I can se that comparison on the poisoned wine analogy, but that would not relate directly to the topic at hand. My reapplication would, I think.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: vastergotland]
#125069
04/29/10 08:43 PM
04/29/10 08:43 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Selfishness that by default attach to anything a human touch, if you are unable to choose for or against it, I think it would fall within the category of original sin. What I mean is that Jesus blood does not need to be applied anew for each time original sin contaminates something new in the person. It was done once and it will suffice. So what you believe is that unconscious sins don't need Christ's intercession?
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Rosangela]
#125070
04/29/10 08:49 PM
04/29/10 08:49 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
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I think they were already covered by Christ's intercession.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: vastergotland]
#125071
04/29/10 09:03 PM
04/29/10 09:03 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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I can se that comparison on the poisoned wine analogy, but that would not relate directly to the topic at hand. I see things differently. If you have some drops of poison (selfishness) in your nature (wine), it contaminates everythging you do - even your manifestations of love and of the other fruits of the Spirit.
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