I don't think the Samaritans were guilty of sinning against God in the same way S&G were guilty of sinning against God. Instead, I believe they were in a similar state as the Amorties when Jesus told Abraham she would not be "utterly destroyed" "until the fourth generation" "for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full". In the same way and for the same reasons Jesus did not give the disciples permission to call down fire upon the Samaritans.

Did Jesus violate the law when He rained down fire upon S&G and killed everyone? No, of course not.

What sayest the Lord? "God does not work on the plan of man. He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. . . . Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice. {LDE 241.2}

I don't think the Samaritans were guilty of sinning against God in the same way S&G were guilty of sinning against God. Instead, I believe they were in a similar state as the Amorties when Jesus told Abraham she would not be "utterly destroyed" "until the fourth generation" "for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full". In the same way and for the same reasons Jesus did not give the disciples permission to call down fire upon the Samaritans.

Satan is the destroyer ; God is the restorer . {CH 168. 2}

T: As I recall, Christ actually said, "Let he of you which is without sin cast the first stone." As I pointed out, this is a set with no members, which means that Christ told nobody to stone her. Do you not understand this?

M: Yes, I understand your point. However, do you understand my question? Do you agree Jesus said, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her”? I’m not asking you to explain what you think He meant; I’m simply asking if you believe He said those words?

T: You're asking me if I think Jesus Christ said the words recorded in John 8? Why are you asking this?

M: Or, do you suspect He was misquoted?

T: Why would you think I think this?

M: Also, do you think the rulers thought themselves sinless or worthy to cast the first stone at the woman?

T: Obviously not, right?

M: If so, what do you think motivated them to abandon their plan and sneak away?

T: Why would you think I think something which is obviously false?

M: In so doing He did not contradict the law. However, mercy is in keeping with the law. As such, Jesus did not disregard the law when He forgave her. Which came first, though, repentance or pardon? I believe Jesus forgave her because she was repentant.

T: She wasn't repentant. Not until after Christ spoke to her. It was His goodness that led her to repentance. Nobody repents without Christ's making the first move. If He hadn't pardoned us first, we'd all be dead.

M: True, it is the goodness of God that leads some sinners to repent and to love and obey Him.

T: Actually it leads everybody to repentance.

M: And it is also true that Jesus made pardon available; however, I disagree with those who say He in reality pardoned us (wrote “pardon” next to all of our sins) before we repented and asked Him to.

T: Who says this? I no of no one who says this.

M: My point is Jesus forgave the woman after she repented.

T: Or before, depending upon what aspect of forgiveness you are referring to. In the ordinary sense of the word, He forgave her before she repented. He said, "Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more." This was before she repented. His goodness led her to repentance.

M: Yes, what Jesus said to the woman was beautiful, but not more beautiful than what Jesus said to King David when he sinned. Jesus was just as loving and beautiful in the OT as He was in the NT.

T: 1.Jesus didn't exist as a human being until many years after David.
2.Jesus Christ, as a human being, revealed God's character such as had never been done before. Even angels marveled at the revelation. Until Jesus Christ's life, and death, God had not been understood in His fullness.
3.Nobody really understood the OT God until Jesus Christ came. Then He clearly revealed Him.
4.Your view of the OT God is very different from what Jesus Christ the human being revealed, it seems clear to me. This is a sort of schizophrenic view. Nice in the New, but not to nice in the Old, and not so nice again in the future.
5.The SOP suggests we spend a thoughtful hour each day meditating on the life of Christ. Why do you suppose she suggested this?

M: Also, in a different sense, what Jesus commanded Moses to do (kill sinners) was beautiful. “Infinite justice” is a beautiful trait of God’s character. By the way, you didn’t respond to the rest of my post above. I would appreciate it if you would respond to it. Thank you.

T: I think this is confusion.

T: I appreciate your kind words, but we look at this incident very differently. I've mentioned the analogy of the father/hunter on a number of occasions. I see the incident like that.

M: Yes, I see similarities; however, teaching a wayward son how to kill animals in a humane manner (something you believe is not a sin) is more dissimilar than similar to Jesus commanding Moses to kill sinners (something you believe is a sin). Do you see what I mean?

T: It's an analogy. I'm not sure you've ever understood it. It's the best explanation I've seen. This is why I've not really seen much point in going on in this discussion. It's evidently something you're not able to perceive as I do. I've made suggestions that I think would be helpful, such as studying the life of Christ, and forming a theology of God's character based on that first, and then going back later on to the OT. You seem to have no interest in this, but I don't see how rehashing the same OT things over and over again is going to help, especially when you seem unable to understand what I'm trying to say. I'm not blaming you for this. It could be that I'm just not able to find a way to communicate to you clearly enough at this time. Until that time, assuming I'm able to do so, why not give my suggestion a try?

M: Another question is - Did Jesus ever command someone to kill a sinner when in reality they were like the woman and deserving of forgiveness?

T: The woman wasn't deserving of forgiveness. Christ acted the way He did towards her out of the goodness of His own heart, not out of any goodness on her part.

M: You didn’t answer my question.

T: Sure I did. Your question contained the premise that the woman was deserving of forgiveness. I answered your question by pointing out that she wasn't.

M: Also, by the way, I agree there is nothing we can do to deserve pardon and salvation. However, when we comply with the conditions of pardon and salvation I believe the Bible makes it clear we are “worthy”. I take it you disagree?

T: You said you agree that there is nothing we can do to deserve pardon and salvation, but that we can be "worthy." (in quotes). I'm not sure what "worthy" (in quotes) means. I'd say we are not worthy, but Christ is worthy, and we be grace my receive from His goodness, mercy and love, as unworthy sinners.

M: If you disagree, how do you interpret the “worthy” passages I posted earlier?

T: Here’s what you posted earlier:


Here's one to consider: Acts 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.” I would interpret this as saying that God allowed them to have a privilege, and they were thankful for that privilege.

Here's another: 2 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [his] goodness, and the work of faith with power:” This looks to be saying that being counted worthy of [this] calling means allowing God to fulfill the good pleasure of His goodness, which I would take to mean revealing His character. So we are worthy of His calling if we allow Him to reveal His character in us. Is this enough?

M: I don't think the Samaritans were guilty of sinning against God in the same way S&G were guilty of sinning against God. Instead, I believe they were in a similar state as the Amorties when Jesus told Abraham she would not be "utterly destroyed" "until the fourth generation" "for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full". In the same way and for the same reasons Jesus did not give the disciples permission to call down fire upon the Samaritans.

K: So would you say that if the Samaritan's cup was full, He would have given them permission?

M: Did Jesus violate the law when He rained down fire upon S&G and killed everyone? No, of course not.

K: I guess it depends upon what the law says.

M: What sayest the Lord? "God does not work on the plan of man. He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. . . . Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice. {LDE 241.2}

K: But, it seems to me that you intend the quote to mean that He did violate the law as He has a right to which man has no right to. What do you say the law says? Assuming the law means the Ten commandments, do you believe the Ten commandments represent His character? Would this mean He has a right to violate His character?

K: Do you believe Adam was guilty of breaking every part of the Ten commandments?

I don't think the Samaritans were guilty of sinning against God in the same way S&G were guilty of sinning against God. Instead, I believe they were in a similar state as the Amorties when Jesus told Abraham she would not be "utterly destroyed" "until the fourth generation" "for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full". In the same way and for the same reasons Jesus did not give the disciples permission to call down fire upon the Samaritans.

T: The Samaritans had been around for how many generations? Fifty? More? Long past the 3 or 4 of the Amorites. Don't see how you're seeing an analogy here.

T: Also when Elijah called heaven down from heaven, wasn't that against Jews? How would that fit in to what you're saying?

T: What really happened is so simple, it's hard to see how it's missed. Jesus had no secret agenda. The disciples wanted to have fire called down from heaven to destroy. Jesus said they didn't know of what spirit they were. Why? Because the Son of Man did not come to destroy but to save. This is God's character. God is the restorer. Satan is the destroyer. "Satan is the destroyer ; God is the restorer . {CH 168. 2}

When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor. The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. God's long-suffering has ended. The world has rejected His mercy, despised His love, and trampled upon His law. The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation; the Spirit of God, persistently resisted, has been at last withdrawn. Unsheltered by divine grace, they have no protection from the wicked one. Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old. {GC 614.1}

A single angel destroyed all the first-born of the Egyptians and filled the land with mourning. When David offended against God by numbering the people, one angel caused that terrible destruction by which his sin was punished. The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits. There are forces now ready, and only waiting the divine permission, to spread desolation everywhere. {GC 614.2}

Those who honor the law of God have been accused of bringing judgments upon the world, and they will be regarded as the cause of the fearful convulsions of nature and the strife and bloodshed among men that are filling the earth with woe. The power attending the last warning has enraged the wicked; their anger is kindled against all who have received the message, and Satan will excite to still greater intensity the spirit of hatred and persecution. {GC 614.3}

Moses delivered his message; but the proud king's answer was, "Who is the Lord, that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I know not the Lord, neither will I let Israel go." Ex. 5:2. The Lord worked for His people by signs and wonders, sending terrible judgments upon Pharaoh. At length the destroying angel was bidden to slay the first-born of man and beast among the Egyptians. That the Israelites might be spared, they were directed to place upon their doorposts the blood of a slain lamb. Every house was to be marked, that when the angel came on his mission of death, he might pass over the homes of the Israelites. {DA 51.3}

Had Pharaoh accepted the evidence of God's power given in the first plague, he would have been spared all the judgments that followed. But his determined stubbornness called for still greater manifestations of the power of God, and plague followed plague, until at last he was called to look upon the dead face of his own first born, and those of his kindred; while the children of Israel, whom he had regarded as slaves, were unharmed by the plagues, untouched by the destroying angel. God made it evident upon whom rested His favor, who were His people. {CC 89.4}

When God was about to smite the first-born of Egypt, He commanded the Israelites to gather their children from among the Egyptians into their own dwellings and strike their door posts with blood, that the destroying angel might see it and pass over their homes. It was the work of parents to gather in their children. This is your work, this is my work, and the work of every mother who believes the truth. The angel is to place a mark upon the forehead of all who are separated from sin and sinners, and the destroying angel will follow, to slay utterly both old and young. {5T 505.2}

M:I don't think the Samaritans were guilty of sinning against God in the same way S&G were guilty of sinning against God. Instead, I believe they were in a similar state as the Amorties when Jesus told Abraham she would not be "utterly destroyed" "until the fourth generation" "for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full". In the same way and for the same reasons Jesus did not give the disciples permission to call down fire upon the Samaritans.

T: The Samaritans had been around for how many generations? Fifty? More? Long past the 3 or 4 of the Amorites. Don't see how you're seeing an analogy here.

M:When do you think they filled up their cup of iniquity?

T: Also when Elijah called heaven down from heaven, wasn't that against Jews? How would that fit in to what you're saying?

M:I assume you're referring to when Elijah prayed and God answered by sending down fire to consume the sacrifice. At this point, their cup of iniquity was not filled. God was still working with the COI to fulfill His purpose.

T: What really happened is so simple, it's hard to see how it's missed. Jesus had no secret agenda. The disciples wanted to have fire called down from heaven to destroy. Jesus said they didn't know of what spirit they were. Why? Because the Son of Man did not come to destroy but to save. This is God's character. God is the restorer. Satan is the destroyer. "Satan is the destroyer ; God is the restorer . {CH 168. 2}

Yes, there are times when God permits evil angels to destroy sinners. There are even times when God permits evil angels to afflict His chosen servants. However, there are times when Jesus commands holy men and holy angels to punish and destroy sinners.

And, there are even times when Jesus Himself employs the forces of nature to punish and destroy sinners.

With sin came sickness and suffering, for we reap that which we sow. Satan afterward caused man to charge upon God the suffering which is but the sure result of the transgression of physical law. God is thus falsely accused, and his character misrepresented. He is charged with doing that which Satan himself has done. God would have his people expose this falsehood of the enemy. To them he has given the light of the gospel of health, and as his representatives they are to give the light to others. As they work to relieve suffering humanity, they are to point out the origin of all suffering, and direct the mind to Jesus, the great Healer of both soul and body. His heart of sympathy goes out to all earth's sufferers, and with every one who works for their relief, he co-operates. As with his blessing health returns, the character of God will be vindicated, and the lie thrown back upon Satan, its originator. {Christian Educator, October 1, 1898 par.9}

When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor. The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. God's long-suffering has ended. The world has rejected His mercy, despised His love, and trampled upon His law. The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation; the Spirit of God, persistently resisted, has been at last withdrawn. Unsheltered by divine grace, they have no protection from the wicked one. Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old. {GC 614.1}

M: I don't think the Samaritans were guilty of sinning against God in the same way S&G were guilty of sinning against God. Instead, I believe they were in a similar state as the Amorties when Jesus told Abraham she would not be "utterly destroyed" "until the fourth generation" "for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full". In the same way and for the same reasons Jesus did not give the disciples permission to call down fire upon the Samaritans.

T: The Samaritans had been around for how many generations? Fifty? More? Long past the 3 or 4 of the Amorites. Don't see how you're seeing an analogy here.

M: When do you think they filled up their cup of iniquity?

T: Why do you think they did? I don't know Samaritan history.

T: Also when Elijah called heaven down from heaven, wasn't that against Jews? How would that fit in to what you're saying?

M: I assume you're referring to when Elijah prayed and God answered by sending down fire to consume the sacrifice. At this point, their cup of iniquity was not filled. God was still working with the COI to fulfill His purpose.

T: Then why would you think the Samaritans iniquity was filled?

T: What really happened is so simple, it's hard to see how it's missed. Jesus had no secret agenda. The disciples wanted to have fire called down from heaven to destroy. Jesus said they didn't know of what spirit they were. Why? Because the Son of Man did not come to destroy but to save. This is God's character. God is the restorer. Satan is the destroyer. "Satan is the destroyer ; God is the restorer . {CH 168. 2}

M: Yes, there are times when God permits evil angels to destroy sinners. There are even times when God permits evil angels to afflict His chosen servants. However, there are times when Jesus commands holy men and holy angels to punish and destroy sinners.

T: This is getting off the point. The point is that desiring fire to come from heaven to destroy others is not the Spirit of Christ.

M: And, there are even times when Jesus Himself employs the forces of nature to punish and destroy sinners.

T: No He doesn't. Satan is the destroyer. God is the restorer. Here's a nice quote which explains the principle: “With sin came sickness and suffering, for we reap that which we sow. Satan afterward caused man to charge upon God the suffering which is but the sure result of the transgression of physical law. God is thus falsely accused, and his character misrepresented. He is charged with doing that which Satan himself has done. God would have his people expose this falsehood of the enemy. To them he has given the light of the gospel of health, and as his representatives they are to give the light to others. As they work to relieve suffering humanity, they are to point out the origin of all suffering, and direct the mind to Jesus, the great Healer of both soul and body. His heart of sympathy goes out to all earth's sufferers, and with every one who works for their relief, he co-operates. As with his blessing health returns, the character of God will be vindicated, and the lie thrown back upon Satan, its originator. {Christian Educator, October 1, 1898 par.9}

This brings out many of the points I've mentioned.

1.With sin came sickness and suffering, for we reap that which we sow.
2.Satan afterward caused man to charge upon God the suffering which is but the sure result of the transgression of physical law.
3.God is thus falsely accused, and his character misrepresented.
4.God is charged with doing that which Satan himself has done.
5.God would have his people expose this falsehood of the enemy. (I'm trying to do this. It's hard work! The resistance is amazing. One would think people would be open to good news like this, but they're not; they prefer a destructive God).

Now this is talking about the gospel of health, but the same principles apply to sin and spiritual health. Satan is the destroyer, and he blames God for his own work, thus misrepresenting God's character.

Regarding your quote, it's nice that you quoted the underlined sentence in context: “When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor. The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. God's long-suffering has ended. The world has rejected His mercy, despised His love, and trampled upon His law. The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation; the Spirit of God, persistently resisted, has been at last withdrawn. Unsheltered by divine grace, they have no protection from the wicked one. Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old. {GC 614.1}

What do we learn from this?

1.The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent.
2.The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, has been at last withdrawn.
3.Unsheltered by divine grace, they have no protection from the wicked one.
4.Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble.

So who's doing the destroying here? What do the holy angels do? Isn't it obvious that they restrain? Regarding if Satan is the destroying angel, yes. That's his name, in fact (Apolyon). God destroys be permitting Satan to do his destructive work. Consider Job, where God spoke of being moved to destroy Job. But what really happened?

Once the underlying principles are understood, as laid out above, this is very easy to understand. God's not schizophrenic. He doesn't sometimes restore and sometimes destroy. It's not sometimes not according to His Spirit to call fire down from heaven to destroy, and other times it is. For example, consider the statement "The exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God's government." That doesn't mean sometimes, but always. Or "Compelling power if only found in Satan's government." That doesn't mean "Compelling power is found in both Satan's government and God's government."

I meant to say the Samaritans, like the Amorites, had not yet filled up their cup of iniquity. That’s the comparison. I don’t think it matters how long they went without filling up their cup.

Satan is the destroyer. God is the restorer.(Christian Educator, October 1, 1898)

True, when Jesus was here in the flesh it was not His purpose to punish and destroy unredeemable sinners.

Even from your point of view, it was not Jesus’ purpose while here in the flesh to withdraw His protection and permit unredeemable sinners to suffer and die according to their sinfulness. Citing the story above as proof that Jesus never punished and destroyed sinners in the past or that He will not punish or destroy them during the final judgment misses the mark.

It sounds like, yes, you believe the “destroying angel” and the “angel of the LORD” is in reality an evil angel.

And it sounds like you believe “the same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits” means holy angels will stop restraining evil angels and permit them to pour out the seven last plagues. If so, in what sense is it the “same destructive power”?

In other words, if, as you seem to be saying, exercising “destructive power” means ceasing restraining death and destruction, it stands to reason evil angels will also cease restraining death and destruction when they exercise the “same destructive power”.

If so, who or what, then, will actually pour out the seven last plagues?

When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor. The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. God's long-suffering has ended. The world has rejected His mercy, despised His love, and trampled upon His law. The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation; the Spirit of God, persistently resisted, has been at last withdrawn. Unsheltered by divine grace, they have no protection from the wicked one. Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old.

You wrote, “God destroys be permitting Satan to do his destructive work.” Do you mean God destroys by permitting Satan to cause death and destruction? If so, who or what do you think will cause death and destruction during the final judgment?

M: I meant to say the Samaritans, like the Amorites, had not yet filled up their cup of iniquity. That’s the comparison. I don’t think it matters how long they went without filling up their cup.

T: But this doesn't have anything to do with anything. The disciples suggested that Jesus call fire from heaven to destroy the Samaritans. Jesus didn't say, "This would be OK, if their cup will filled, but it's not, so it's not time yet." Instead He rebuked them. He said they didn't know of what spirit they were. It wasn't a problem with timing but of spirit. Their spirit was wrong. Why? Because they wanted Jesus to call fire from heaven to destroy. Jesus explained this is the wrong spirit. Why? Because: “Satan is the destroyer. God is the restorer.(Christian Educator, October 1, 1898)

M: True, when Jesus was here in the flesh it was not His purpose to punish and destroy unredeemable sinners.

T: Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. This is never His purpose. His purpose is always to heal, to save, to bless, to do good. Those who reject His love destroy themselves.

M: Even from your point of view, it was not Jesus’ purpose while here in the flesh to withdraw His protection and permit unredeemable sinners to suffer and die according to their sinfulness. Citing the story above as proof that Jesus never punished and destroyed sinners in the past or that He will not punish or destroy them during the final judgment misses the mark.

T: No it doesn't. It shows what is a right spirit and what is a wrong spirit. The spirit that would call fire from heaven to destroy is wrong.

M: It sounds like, yes, you believe the “destroying angel” and the “angel of the LORD” is in reality an evil angel.

T: These are two different angels. Satan is the destroyer. The Lord is the restorer. The angels of God guard against the destroyer. The holy angels at times permit Satan and his angels to destroy.

The storm came as predicted--thunder and hail, and fire mingled with it, "very grievous, such as there was none like it in all the land of Egypt since it became a nation. And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast; and the hail smote every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field." Ruin and desolation marked the path of the destroying angel. The land of Goshen alone was spared. It was demonstrated to the Egyptians that the earth is under the control of the living God, that the elements obey His voice, and that the only safety is in obedience to Him. {PP 269.3}

Our laws make it a high crime to take a false oath. God has often visited judgment upon the false swearer, and even while the oath was on his lips, the destroying angel has cut him down. This was to prove a terror to evildoers. {1T 202.2}

When God was about to smite the first-born of Egypt, He commanded the Israelites to gather their children from among the Egyptians into their own dwellings and strike their door posts with blood, that the destroying angel might see it and pass over their homes. It was the work of parents to gather in their children. This is your work, this is my work, and the work of every mother who believes the truth. The angel is to place a mark upon the forehead of all who are separated from sin and sinners, and the destroying angel will follow, to slay utterly both old and young. {5T 505.2}

M: And it sounds like you believe “the same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits” means holy angels will stop restraining evil angels and permit them to pour out the seven last plagues. If so, in what sense is it the “same destructive power”?

T: The evil angels exercise the same destructive power.

M: In other words, if, as you seem to be saying, exercising “destructive power” means ceasing restraining death and destruction, it stands to reason evil angels will also cease restraining death and destruction when they exercise the “same destructive power”.

T: Huh? The bad angels destroy. The good angels prevent destruction.

M: If so, who or what, then, will actually pour out the seven last plagues?

T: That's explained in GC 614: “When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor. The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. God's long-suffering has ended. The world has rejected His mercy, despised His love, and trampled upon His law. The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation; the Spirit of God, persistently resisted, has been at last withdrawn. Unsheltered by divine grace, they have no protection from the wicked one. Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old.”

M: You wrote, “God destroys be permitting Satan to do his destructive work.” Do you mean God destroys by permitting Satan to cause death and destruction? If so, who or what do you think will cause death and destruction during the final judgment?

T: The prevailing power of God's government is truth and love. The death and destruction during the final judgment will result from this prevailing power.

When Elisha twice called down fire to kill the band of fifty would you say he was guilty of having a “wrong spirit”?

When Jesus employed fire to kill Nadab and Abihu would you say he was guilty of having a “wrong spirit”?

When Abraham tried to talk Jesus out of killing the inhabitants of S&G do you think Jesus was guilty of having a “wrong spirit” when He rained down fire and killed them?

At the end of time, when Jesus rains down fire from above and raises up fire from below to kill the wicked do you think He will be guilty of having a “wrong spirit”?

Were the disciples guilty of having a “wrong spirit” when they wanted to call down fire to kill the Samaritans? Yes, of course. How do we know? Jesus said so!

The question is – Did Jesus accuse anyone of having a “wrong spirit” in the cases I mentioned above? No, of course not. How do we know? Because Jesus didn’t say so! Instead, He was responsible for the outcome.

In the OT Jesus withdrew His protection and allowed sinners to be punished and destroyed. When He withdrew His protection, did He know it would result in them being punished and destroyed? Yes, of course. Does this mean He is a destroyer? No, of course not. Was it His purpose “to heal, to save, to bless, to do good” (your words) when He withdrew His protection? No, of course not.

Instead, it was His purpose to punish them. Were there unredeemable sinners alive when Jesus was here in the flesh? Yes, of course. Did He withdraw His protection and allow them to be punished and destroyed? No, of course not. Why not? Because it wasn’t His purpose while here in the flesh.

If, as you say, the “destroying angel” is in reality an evil angel, wouldn’t that make the relationship between Jesus and Satan boss and hit man?

What if Satan chose not to kill someone? What then? For example, what if Satan had chosen not to kill Pharaoh’s first-born son? Or, what if Satan had chosen not kill any of the first-born in Egypt? What then?

And, why do you think Satan so faithfully obeys Jesus in killing sinners,

especially when doing so results in sinners loving and obeying God?

In what sense, then, is destroying sinners the “same destructive power exercised by holy angels”? If holy angels exercise “destructive power” by “preventing destruction”, why do you think evil angels exercise the “same destructive power” to cause destruction? What is the nature and essence of this “destructive power”?

She says Satan will control the “fierce winds of human passion” when probation closes. Do you think Satan will use humans to cause the devastation portrayed by the plagues? I don’t. I think it means Satan will inspire humans to war among themselves while holy angels obey Jesus and pour out the plagues.

T: The prevailing power of God's government is truth and love. The death and destruction during the final judgment will result from this prevailing power.

M:What does God do now to prevent evil angels from suffering and dying as a result of the fact God is truth and love?

Why doesn’t love and truth cause them to suffer and die now? And, what will God do differently that will result in them suffering and dying?