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Re: Why do we sin?
[Re: Rosangela]
#124413
03/31/10 11:27 PM
03/31/10 11:27 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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The Spirit is given as a regenerating agency, to make effectual the salvation wrought by the death of our Redeemer. The Spirit is constantly seeking to draw the attention of men to the great offering that was made on the cross of Calvary, to unfold to the world the love of God, and to open to the convicted soul the precious things of the Scriptures. {AA 52.4}
Having brought conviction of sin, and presented before the mind the standard of righteousness, the Holy Spirit withdraws the affections from the things of this earth and fills the soul with a desire for holiness. "He will guide you into all truth" (John 16:13), the Saviour declared. If men are willing to be molded, there will be brought about a sanctification of the whole being. The Spirit will take the things of God and stamp them on the soul. By His power the way of life will be made so plain that none need err therein. {AA 52.5} The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour.(DA 175) These bring out that it is necessary for us to resist the Spirit. Our "neglect" may appear to us to be unconscious, but there's an actual decision involved, because the Holy Spirit is working. He doesn't wait for us to take the initiative (or we'd all be lost), but He is "constantly" seeking to draw our attention to Christ. Therefore our going from a state of abiding in Christ to not abiding in Christ requires a choice, which is sin. It's not something that "just happens." It's not our job to do something to do something to make sure we are continuing to abide in Christ. If this were the case, we would be saving ourselves by our works. Our job is to cooperate with God, by faith; to not resist or hinder Him, but it's not as if God stands idly by while we either ratchet up the necessary effort to stay abiding in Christ or not.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Why do we sin?
[Re: Rosangela]
#124418
04/01/10 06:14 PM
04/01/10 06:14 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Consciously making a choice not to abide in Jesus means they are already not abiding in Him So Adam and Eve were already not abiding in Jesus when they counsciously chose not to abide in Him? A&E were sinless by default. We are sinful by default. Eve was deceived into believing eating the fruit would improve her relationship to Jesus. Adam unwisely resolved to die with Eve. Both of them made a conscious, deliberate choice which resulted in an altered state, a sinful state. We must continually make a conscious, deliberate choice to be in an altered state, a sinless state. Otherwise, we are in a sinful state by default. We do not have to choose to be in a sinful state. A&E, on the other hand, did not have to make a conscious, deliberate choice to be in a sinless state. Instead, they had to make a conscious, deliberate choice to be in sinful state. For these reasons it is impossible to compare ourselves to A&E before they sinned.
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Re: Why do we sin?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#124419
04/01/10 06:28 PM
04/01/10 06:28 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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It's not our job to do something to do something to make sure we are continuing to abide in Christ. "Human effort avails nothing without divine power; and without human endeavor, divine effort is with many of no avail. To make God's grace our own, we must act our part. His grace is given to work in us to will and to do, but never as a substitute for our effort. {AG 253.6} Do you ask, "How am I to abide in Christ?" In the same way as you received Him at first. "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him." Col. 2:6. "The just shall live by faith." Heb. 10:38. You gave yourself to God, to be His wholly, to serve and obey Him, and you took Christ as your Saviour. You could not yourself atone for your sins or change your heart; but having given yourself to God, you believe that He for Christ's sake did all this for you. By faith you became Christ's, and by faith you are to grow up in Him--by giving and taking. You are to give all--your heart, your will, your service--give yourself to Him to obey all His requirements; and you must take all--Christ, the fullness of all blessing, to abide in your heart, to be your strength, your righteousness, your everlasting helper --to give you power to obey. {FLB 125.3}
The Lord does not propose to perform for us either the willing or the doing. This is our proper work. As soon as we earnestly enter upon the work, God's grace is given to work in us to will and to do, but never as a substitute for our effort. Our souls are to be aroused to cooperate. The Holy Spirit works the human agent, to work out our own salvation. This is the practical lesson the Holy Spirit is striving to teach us. "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure." {TM 240.2}
In one way we are thrown upon our own energies; we are to strive earnestly to be zealous and to repent, to cleanse our hands and purify our hearts from every defilement; we are to reach the highest standard, believing that God will help us in our efforts. We must seek if we would find, and seek in faith; we must knock, that the door may be opened unto us. The Bible teaches that everything regarding our salvation depends upon our own course of action. If we perish, the responsibility will rest wholly upon ourselves. If provision has been made, and if we accept God's terms, we may lay hold on eternal life. We must come to Christ in faith, we must be diligent to make our calling and election sure. {NL 35.3}
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Re: Why do we sin?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#124420
04/01/10 06:56 PM
04/01/10 06:56 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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It's not our job to do something to do something to make sure we are continuing to abide in Christ. Where's the rest of this? I explained what I meant. Where is that? Please respond to what I explained I meant (as opposed to extracting one sentence from it's context).
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Why do we sin?
[Re: Tom]
#124421
04/01/10 07:01 PM
04/01/10 07:01 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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We must continually make a conscious, deliberate choice to be in an altered state, a sinless state. Otherwise, we are in a sinful state by default. We do not have to choose to be in a sinful state. This is false, as I explained. This would be true if God sat idly by not doing anything, but that's not the case. The Spirit of God leads us to the cross. He does this! This is why one must *resist* in order to be lost. That's what the quote I cited brings out. "If the sinner does not resist" then all the rest happens. So it's not a matter of you must do something to be saved, but you don't have to do anything to be lost. To be saved involves cooperating with God. To be lost involves resisting God. There are two roads, and both roads involve our making a decision. Similarly, if we are abiding in Jesus, we have to do something to go out. We don't stay in by works we do, but by faith. Faith is a response to the initiative of God. The Holy Spirit is constantly seeking to lead us to the cross. Since His work of leading us to the cross is constant, to resist Him requires constant resistance or rejection, which is sin.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Why do we sin?
[Re: Tom]
#124422
04/01/10 07:52 PM
04/01/10 07:52 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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It's not our job to do something to do something to make sure we are continuing to abide in Christ. Where's the rest of this? I explained what I meant. Where is that? Please respond to what I explained I meant (as opposed to extracting one sentence from it's context). The quotes I posted merely complimented what you wrote. I wasn't disputing anything.
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Re: Why do we sin?
[Re: Tom]
#124423
04/01/10 07:58 PM
04/01/10 07:58 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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We must continually make a conscious, deliberate choice to be in an altered state, a sinless state. Otherwise, we are in a sinful state by default. We do not have to choose to be in a sinful state. This is false, as I explained. Are you disagreeing with the idea we are in a sinful state by default?
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Re: Why do we sin?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#124428
04/01/10 09:24 PM
04/01/10 09:24 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Are you disagreeing with the idea we are in a sinful state by default? I disagreed with what you said here: We must continually make a conscious, deliberate choice to be in an altered state, a sinless state. Otherwise, we are in a sinful state by default. We do not have to choose to be in a sinful state. I disagree because the implication here is that one must make a choice to be saved, but not to be lost. This implies the Holy Spirit isn't doing anything that would cause us to have to do something to be lost, but He is. We have to take action to be lost (namely, resist/reject).
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Why do we sin?
[Re: Rick H]
#124435
04/02/10 02:19 AM
04/02/10 02:19 AM
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SDA Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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If we know what is sin, and the cause and end result, why do we sin? Because we like it.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Why do we sin?
[Re: asygo]
#124436
04/02/10 03:09 AM
04/02/10 03:09 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Tom, what you're saying sounds at odds with the following insight - "It is not necessary for us deliberately to choose the service of the kingdom of darkness in order to come under its dominion. We have only to neglect to ally ourselves with the kingdom of light."
Ellen also wrote:
Many are inquiring, "How am I to make the surrender of myself to God?" You desire to give yourself to Him, but you are weak in moral power, in slavery to doubt, and controlled by the habits of your life of sin. Your promises and resolutions are like ropes of sand. You cannot control your thoughts, your impulses, your affections. The knowledge of your broken promises and forfeited pledges weakens your confidence in your own sincerity, and causes you to feel that God cannot accept you; but you need not despair. What you need to understand is the true force of the will. This is the governing power in the nature of man, the power of decision, or of choice. Everything depends on the right action of the will. The power of choice God has given to men; it is theirs to exercise. You cannot change your heart, you cannot of yourself give to God its affections; but you can choose to serve Him. You can give Him your will; He will then work in you to will and to do according to His good pleasure. Thus your whole nature will be brought under the control of the Spirit of Christ; your affections will be centered upon Him, your thoughts will be in harmony with Him. {SC 47.1}
Desires for goodness and holiness are right as far as they go; but if you stop here, they will avail nothing. Many will be lost while hoping and desiring to be Christians. They do not come to the point of yielding the will to God. They do not now choose to be Christians. {SC 47.2}
But unless we do yield ourselves to the control of Christ, we shall be dominated by the wicked one. We must inevitably be under the control of the one or the other of the two great powers that are contending for the supremacy of the world. It is not necessary for us deliberately to choose the service of the kingdom of darkness in order to come under its dominion. We have only to neglect to ally ourselves with the kingdom of light. If we do not co-operate with the heavenly agencies, Satan will take possession of the heart, and will make it his abiding place. The only defense against evil is the indwelling of Christ in the heart through faith in His righteousness. Unless we become vitally connected with God, we can never resist the unhallowed effects of self-love, self-indulgence, and temptation to sin. We may leave off many bad habits, for the time we may part company with Satan; but without a vital connection with God, through the surrender of ourselves to Him moment by moment, we shall be overcome. Without a personal acquaintance with Christ, and a continual communion, we are at the mercy of the enemy, and shall do his bidding in the end. {DA 324.1}
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