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The Origin of Sunday Observance? #125740
06/05/10 01:15 AM
06/05/10 01:15 AM
Daryl  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Nova Scotia, Canada
As almost every Christian denomination observes Sunday instead of Saturday (Sabbath) as the day of worship, when did the change from Saturday to Sunday take place?

I am only aware of a few Christian denominations that observe Saturday (Sabbath) as the day of worship, namely Seventh-day Pentecostals, Seventh-day Baptists, Messianic Jews, and (of course) Seventh-day Adventists.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: The Origin of Sunday Observance? [Re: Daryl] #133894
05/31/11 06:06 AM
05/31/11 06:06 AM
Kevin H  Offline
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In a lecture at Loma Linda University Elder C. Mervin Maxwell was giving us information on a book he was writing on the change. Sadly he died soon thereafter and I don't know if anyone is doing the final research. It sounded like it would have been a powerful book. While a stonch supporter of the Sabbath it was sensitive to Sundaykeepers as well.

He was saying that with things that were going on in the world during the 2nd century that Sundaykeeping was probably the best choice at the time, but now we are no longer living in those times and should return to the Sabbath.

Scholars have been pointing out that in the first century while Sabbath was the Sabbath, that Chirstians would also meet on Sundays to talk about things that were unique to Christians and not just in common for Chistians and Jews, and to the gentiles, especially after the Church - Synogogue split of 135 AD (and also that prayer agains Christians in 90 AD) gentile believers tended to focus more on the day that was more focused on Christianity than Judio-Christianity. There are non-adventist scholars, who are Sundaykeepers who say that God still expects Christians of Jewish heritage to keep the Sabbath and that the church needs to be accomidating of Sabbathkeepers and to encourage converts from Judaism to continue to keep the Sabbath.

Others have pointed out that with the rise of the doctrine of Evolution in the mid 1800s that God would call attention to the cultic symbol of worshiping him as creator, and that there is a message in the Sabbath even for Sunday keepers and that there will be a test in the issues about the Sabbath and Sunday laws that will play an eschatalogical role.

This is a bit different from what has developed into a traditon in Adventism:

The mark of the beast is imposed religion. and Sunday laws are imposed religion thus related to the mark of the beast.

But we have skiped over some steps, instead of seeing the broder picture of liberty of conscience and worshiping God according to the dictates of our own conscience, we have made the mark specifically Sunday laws, and we turn to a higher law that if going to be imposed on you, and we have thus become smug in this tradition.

But we probably have a lot more to learn about the Sabbath and the ability to preach it more fully than our tradition allows us to do, and that Dr. Maxwell's research may have been helpful in this and thus his death as an attack by Satan on this book he was writing.

Re: The Origin of Sunday Observance? [Re: Kevin H] #133899
05/31/11 02:11 PM
05/31/11 02:11 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The replacement of Sabbath-keeping with Sunday-keeping began with the Catholic Church. Here's what the inspired record says about it:

Quote:
Prophecy had declared that the papacy was to "think to change times and laws." Daniel 7:25. This work it was not slow to attempt. To afford converts from heathenism a substitute for the worship of idols, and thus to promote their nominal acceptance of Christianity, the adoration of images and relics was gradually introduced into the Christian worship. The decree of a general council (see Appendix) finally established this system of idolatry. To complete the sacrilegious work, Rome presumed to expunge from the law of God the second commandment, forbidding image worship, and to divide the tenth commandment, in order to preserve the number. {GC 51.4}

The spirit of concession to paganism opened the way for a still further disregard of Heaven's authority. Satan, working through unconsecrated leaders of the church, tampered with the fourth commandment also, and essayed to set aside the ancient Sabbath, the day which God had blessed and sanctified (Genesis 2:2, 3), and in its stead to exalt the festival observed by the heathen as "the venerable day of the sun." This change was not at first attempted openly. In the first centuries the true Sabbath had been kept by all Christians. They were jealous for the honor of God, and, believing that His law is immutable, they zealously guarded the sacredness of its precepts. But with great subtlety Satan worked through his agents to bring about his object. That the attention of the people might be called to the Sunday, it was made a festival in honor of the resurrection of Christ. Religious services were held upon it; yet it was regarded as a day of recreation, the Sabbath being still sacredly observed. {GC 52.1}

To prepare the way for the work which he designed to accomplish, Satan had led the Jews, before the advent of Christ, to load down the Sabbath with the most rigorous exactions, making its observance a burden. Now, taking advantage of the false light in which he had thus caused it to be regarded, he cast contempt upon it as a Jewish institution. While Christians generally continued to observe the Sunday as a joyous festival, he led them, in order to show their hatred of Judaism, to make the Sabbath a fast, a day of sadness and gloom. {GC 52.2}

In the early part of the fourth century the emperor Constantine issued a decree making Sunday a public festival throughout the Roman Empire. (See Appendix.) The day of the sun was reverenced by his pagan subjects and was honored by Christians; it was the emperor's policy to unite the conflicting interests of heathenism and Christianity. He was urged to do this by the bishops of the church, who, inspired by ambition and thirst for power, perceived that if the same day was observed by both Christians and heathen, it would promote the nominal acceptance of Christianity by pagans and thus advance the power and glory of the church. But while many God-fearing Christians were gradually led to regard Sunday as possessing a degree of sacredness, they still held the true Sabbath as the holy of the Lord and observed it in obedience to the fourth commandment. {GC 53.1}

The archdeceiver had not completed his work. He was resolved to gather the Christian world under his banner and to exercise his power through his vicegerent, the proud pontiff who claimed to be the representative of Christ. Through half-converted pagans, ambitious prelates, and world-loving churchmen he accomplished his purpose. Vast councils were held from time to time, in which the dignitaries of the church were convened from all the world. In nearly every council the Sabbath which God had instituted was pressed down a little lower, while the Sunday was correspondingly exalted. Thus the pagan festival came finally to be honored as a divine institution, while the Bible Sabbath was pronounced a relic of Judaism, and its observers were declared to be accursed. {GC 53.2}

The great apostate had succeeded in exalting himself "above all that is called God, or that is worshiped." 2 Thessalonians 2:4. He had dared to change the only precept of the divine law that unmistakably points all mankind to the true and living God. In the fourth commandment, God is revealed as the Creator of the heavens and the earth, and is thereby distinguished from all false gods. It was as a memorial of the work of creation that the seventh day was sanctified as a rest day for man. It was designed to keep the living God ever before the minds of men as the source of being and the object of reverence and worship. Satan strives to turn men from their allegiance to God, and from rendering obedience to His law; therefore he directs his efforts especially against that commandment which points to God as the Creator. {GC 53.3}

Protestants now urge that the resurrection of Christ on Sunday made it the Christian Sabbath. But Scripture evidence is lacking. No such honor was given to the day by Christ or His apostles. The observance of Sunday as a Christian institution had its origin in that "mystery of lawlessness" (2 Thessalonians 2:7, R.V.) which, even in Paul's day, had begun its work. Where and when did the Lord adopt this child of the papacy? What valid reason can be given for a change which the Scriptures do not sanction? {GC 54.1}

Re: The Origin of Sunday Observance? [Re: Kevin H] #135701
08/20/11 01:23 AM
08/20/11 01:23 AM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
Very interesting post.

Is there a transcript of what he had accomplished prior to his death?

Has somebody else taken up the task of completing the unfinished mantle?

Originally Posted By: Kevin H
In a lecture at Loma Linda University Elder C. Mervin Maxwell was giving us information on a book he was writing on the change. Sadly he died soon thereafter and I don't know if anyone is doing the final research. It sounded like it would have been a powerful book. While a stonch supporter of the Sabbath it was sensitive to Sundaykeepers as well.

He was saying that with things that were going on in the world during the 2nd century that Sundaykeeping was probably the best choice at the time, but now we are no longer living in those times and should return to the Sabbath.

Scholars have been pointing out that in the first century while Sabbath was the Sabbath, that Chirstians would also meet on Sundays to talk about things that were unique to Christians and not just in common for Chistians and Jews, and to the gentiles, especially after the Church - Synogogue split of 135 AD (and also that prayer agains Christians in 90 AD) gentile believers tended to focus more on the day that was more focused on Christianity than Judio-Christianity. There are non-adventist scholars, who are Sundaykeepers who say that God still expects Christians of Jewish heritage to keep the Sabbath and that the church needs to be accomidating of Sabbathkeepers and to encourage converts from Judaism to continue to keep the Sabbath.

Others have pointed out that with the rise of the doctrine of Evolution in the mid 1800s that God would call attention to the cultic symbol of worshiping him as creator, and that there is a message in the Sabbath even for Sunday keepers and that there will be a test in the issues about the Sabbath and Sunday laws that will play an eschatalogical role.

This is a bit different from what has developed into a traditon in Adventism:

The mark of the beast is imposed religion. and Sunday laws are imposed religion thus related to the mark of the beast.

But we have skiped over some steps, instead of seeing the broder picture of liberty of conscience and worshiping God according to the dictates of our own conscience, we have made the mark specifically Sunday laws, and we turn to a higher law that if going to be imposed on you, and we have thus become smug in this tradition.

But we probably have a lot more to learn about the Sabbath and the ability to preach it more fully than our tradition allows us to do, and that Dr. Maxwell's research may have been helpful in this and thus his death as an attack by Satan on this book he was writing.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: The Origin of Sunday Observance? [Re: Daryl] #135787
08/28/11 12:44 AM
08/28/11 12:44 AM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
Bumping this for a hopeful answer from MM.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: The Origin of Sunday Observance? [Re: Daryl] #135815
08/30/11 02:23 PM
08/30/11 02:23 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Sunday observance began virtually simultainiously with the start of the Christian church. Constantine's edict had nothing to do with it.

It's not really fair to say that the "Catholic" church started Sunday keeping, or changed the day. In the first century there was only one church. It's more accurate to say Christians generally were worshiping on Sunday. Another Christian church did not arise until 1517. (Lutherans)

In the NT there is almost no discussion of the Sabbath/Sunday "issue", and only a handful of texts even mention a day of worship in any context. So I have to ask: "Is Sabbath vs. Sunday REALLY the issue we are making out of it?"


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: The Origin of Sunday Observance? [Re: JAK] #135824
08/31/11 01:34 AM
08/31/11 01:34 AM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
Can you document that for us?
Originally Posted By: JAK
Sunday observance began virtually simultainiously with the start of the Christian church. Constantine's edict had nothing to do with it.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: The Origin of Sunday Observance? [Re: Daryl] #135825
08/31/11 02:54 AM
08/31/11 02:54 AM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
I was afraid someone would ask. Actualy, I can. I just need a little time; I couldn't find the exact reference when I posted.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: The Origin of Sunday Observance? [Re: JAK] #135829
08/31/11 02:45 PM
08/31/11 02:45 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada


Quote:
Justin (c. 114-165) was a Gentile born in Flavia Neapolis, a city of Samaria, the modern Nablous. His writings, according to Jewett, are the first express and detailed description of Christian worship written by a Christian. He is the first Christian writer to use the name Sunday.59 Justin was one of the main apologists of the first century responding to criticisms from cultured pagans that Christianity was a religion of barbarians who derived their teachings from the Jews, a primitive people whose best teachers never rose to the level of Greek philosophers.60

Justin writes in his First Apology 67:


On the day called Sunday all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen .... But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior in the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for you consideration.


The above quote may be found at this website: http://www.gci.org/law/sabbath/hanson

The books of the NT were written between 63 and 120 AD (very approximately), so Justin's writtings are contemporary with the formation of the NT.

Constantine was Emperor from 306-337 AD, which is, at the least, 140 years later. He did not change the day, but simply codefied what was general (should I say universal?) practice in the church.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: The Origin of Sunday Observance? [Re: JAK] #135830
08/31/11 03:03 PM
08/31/11 03:03 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Just out of curiosity, are posters on this forum aware of (and understand) the arguements for keeting Sunday rather than Saturday? (And its not sufficient to simply say "Its not in the Bible.")

Just a question. Not a challenge or judgement.

Last edited by JAK; 08/31/11 03:21 PM. Reason: Add disclaimer.

"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
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