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Does Ephesians 1:13 Implode SDA "Seal of God" Interpretation?
#125654
05/31/10 01:40 AM
05/31/10 01:40 AM
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Does Ephesians 1:13 Implode SDA "Seal of God" Interpretation?
In the last issue of former bi-monthly magazine Proclamation! (turned three-monthly, due to financial constraints), published by former SDA Pastor Dale Ratzlaff with the objective of bashing Seventh-day Adventists and wooing as many as he can to his “new alliance” theology of ambiguity regarding what “law of God” a Christian should now obey (in which it doesn’t match to what Evangelical Christians historically believe and teach), we find a testimony by Carolyn Macomber, former Andrews University employee, who tells a long story, but whose bottom line question would be what is in this segment, of page 4 of said publication:
“In May/June of 2008 I was completely exhausted physically, emotionally, and spiritually. At that time I was attending an interdenominational Bible study called Bible Study Fellowship (BSF). The teaching leader gave out her phone number at the end of the study season, and I called her. We spoke and I shared my exhausted condition with her. Graciously and gently she began to invite me to her home for a meal, for rest, and for conversation. . . One beautiful summer evening, as we sat on her porch, the conversation turned spiritual. Deb spoke of her love of God’s Word, and I responded innocently: ‘I believe in the Bible and the Bible only, to’. Deb replied, ‘No, you don’t’ (She doesn’t fully remember saying that now.) I asked her what she knew of Seventh-day Adventist, and she replied, ‘Not much.’ I left that evening wondering how a woman who definitely loved the Lord and read the Scriptures could miss God’s direct command to keep the Seventh-day Sabbath. Either something was wrong with God, or something was wrong with her. I found out as I began to study that something was wrong with my understanding of God. The Father and the Son in the writings and theology of the Seventh-day Adventist Church were unbiblical. If He had been my example, then sin would have been in Him, and He could not have been the blameless sacrifice for my sin. I began to find that many Seventh-day Adventists teachings were oxymorons.
“From that point I decided I would study the Bible without going to any Ellen G. White writings. If Seventh-day Adventist teaching were truly Biblical, then I should be able to figure out doctrine without the writings of Ellen White. Then came my first ’aha’. According to Adventist teaching, the ‘seal of God’ was the Sabbath; yet I couldn’t find ‘seal of God’ identified as the Sabbath anywhere in the Bible. I did find that the ‘seal of God’ was the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13-14).
“I felt my foundation for life crumbling, and I experienced a deep crisis of faith. What was true, and how would I know it? Different denominations took the same biblical texts and extrapolate different teachings from them. How would I know what was real and true?
“At this point I began an email dialogue with my friend. I asked her, ‘How do you know what is truth?” her response was interesting. She wrote, ‘Remember Jesus’ words in John 14:6, ‘I am the way, the Truth, and the Life.’ Carolyn, He is the very essence and basis for truth.’ Then I came across a devotional on John 3:16 in a book. “He will take you by the hand and guide you into ALL the truth there is (The Message). I chose to believe I could know what was true about God, Jesus and a salvation, based on the fact that the Holy Spirit had been promised to guide and teach us truth (Jn. 16:5-15).”
She goes on telling how her friend used another text, Mat. 11:28, 29, to point to her that Jesus was the “rest”, concluding that through a “personal study of the Bible” she came to see that “the Old Covenant pointed to Jesus, and the New Covenant verified that He literally was our rest”.
Well, she doesn’t explain what led her to such an “exhausted physically, emotionally, and spiritually” condition she went through. And it was under that mental-confusion condition that she met a lady who, although a religious leader, confessed that knew very little about Seventh-day Adventists’ teachings. That is our first “aha”!
Then she digresses about some “oxymorons teachings” about Jesus having sins to be our example, which IS NOT the understanding of Seventh-day Adventists at all. How about reproducing topics 9 and 10 of the Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists to see what OFFICIALLY this church teaches?
9. Life, Death, and Resurrection of Christ:
In Christ's life of perfect obedience to God's will, His suffering, death, and resurrection, God provided the only means of atonement for human sin, so that those who by faith accept this atonement may have eternal life, and the whole creation may better understand the infinite and holy love of the Creator. This perfect atonement vindicates the righteousness of God's law and the graciousness of His character; for it both condemns our sin and provides for our forgiveness. The death of Christ is substitutionary and expiatory, reconciling and transforming. The resurrection of Christ proclaims God's triumph over the forces of evil, and for those who accept the atonement assures their final victory over sin and death. It declares the Lordship of Jesus Christ, before whom every knee in heaven and on earth will bow. (John 3:16; Isa. 53; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4, 20-22; 2 Cor. 5:14, 15, 19-21; Rom. 1:4; 3:25; 4:25; 8:3, 4; 1 John 2:2; 4:10; Col. 2:15; Phil. 2:6-11.)
10. Experience of Salvation:
In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example. This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God's grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God's sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God's law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. (2 Cor. 5:17-21; John 3:16; Gal. 1:4; 4:4-7; Titus 3:3-7; John 16:8; Gal. 3:13, 14; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; Rom. 10:17; Luke 17:5; Mark 9:23, 24; Eph. 2:5-10; Rom. 3:21-26; Col. 1:13, 14; Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 3:26; John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:23; Rom. 12:2; Heb. 8:7-12; Eze. 36:25-27; 2 Peter 1:3, 4; Rom. 8:1-4; 5:6-10.)
Thus, we can see what a big strawman of her own devising Ms. Macomber is fighting against. That shows that her mental confusion that led her to the decision she finally took could have included “forgetfulness”, which we could count as our second “aha”: she “FORGOT” what the SDA teachings really are, and created something of a monstruous idea that doesn’t correspond to what SDA’s really believe and teach regarding both Jesus Christ’s nature and salvation solely by grace.
As to her friend, if Macomber hadn’t forgotten so regrettably what are the REAL SDA views, she could have helped Debbie to know some more of Adventism, especially as she is an educator. But her attitude didn’t help an inch in improving Debbie’s admitted poor knowledge of what are the real views on salvation and on Jesus Christ of the SDA Church. The educator Macomber miseducated her even more conveying to her false notions of 7th-day Adventism, what a shame!
Now, the “seal of God” question deserves a good deal of Bible analysis, so, as God invites: “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD” -- Isa. 1:18.
Does Ephesians say anything about God’s Spirit REPLACING another seal of God? It doesn’t. By the way, we read in Rom. 4:11:
“And he {Abraham} received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also”.
This text gives us important guidance to understand this question of God’s seal. First of all, it shows that “sign” and “seal” are used as synonyms in the Bible. To have a special “sign” from God is to have a “seal”. Was Abraham destituted of God’s Spirit when he received that “sign” or ‘”seal” of circumcision, which, in his case, is related to his being justified by faith? No way. How come the “father of faith” wouldn’t have been also sealed for salvation through having God’s Spirit? After all it is said regarding him: “I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed” (Gen 12:3) had him not God’s Spirit?
Now, Seventh-day Adventists do teach that the Sabbath is God’s seal. That is clearly said in Exo. 31:16, 17 (“Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed”), which is confirmed centuries later through the Prophet Ezekiel (“And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God”— 20:20).
In this context it would be worthwhile to highlight that the Baptists, in their “Doctrinal Declaration” of the National Baptist Convention, of Brazil, quote Exodus 31:14-18 in the footnotes of Topic XV, that deals with the day of observance (in a section they call “Christian Sabbath”) confirming the notion that the commandment related to the rest day, to be totally dedicated to God, is the “sign” between God and His people. That makes very good sense because Atheists, materialists and lax Christians are not characterized as those who dedicate a special period of time to God regularly every week. In the case of the latter, that is done in a way to adjust to their convenience.
[To be concluded in the next thread]
A. G. Brito
Sola Scriptura Ministry
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Re: Does Ephesians 1:13 Implode SDA "Seal of God" Interpretation?
[Re: Azenilto]
#125655
05/31/10 01:44 AM
05/31/10 01:44 AM
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[Conclusion of previous thread]
Regarding the allegation that the “seal of God” is the Holy Spirit, based on Eph. 1:13 and 4:30, there are three considerations to be made:
1 – A document can carry more than one seal to validate it, as any notary office would confirm. Thus, the Spirit is not granted as a divine seal that substitutes another, which is not absolutely indicated in any of these texts.
2 - As the Holy Spirit is granted to all those who accept the terms of the new covenant which God promised to establish with His children who accept Christ [see Heb. 8:6-10 and 10:16] He writes in their hearts and minds what is treated as “My laws” [God’s], and the Sabbath precept enters inescapably in these. Nothing is said that in this process the Lord leaves it out, or maintains it, but changing the sanctity of the seventh to the first day of the week, or leaves the principle of a day of rest as a vague, voluntary and variable practice, that conforms to the conveniences or interests of each believer (or his/her employer).
3 – In Revelation 7:2, 3 an angel is in charge of sealing the servants of God, and angels are not who grant the Holy Spirit.
Could Macomber give us a better explanation to the “three angels message”?
Those who belong to the Adventist faith know how the SDA Church has a very special interpretation of Rev. 14:6-14, which inspires even the Church’s logo. Other day I heard in a religious American TV station a preacher saying, based on these texts, that in the end time three angels will be crossing the skies, preaching the gospel to the Jews! When I heard that I thought in amazement: “How can a preacher of the gospel say such an oxymoron thing?!” I wonder what Ms. Macomber would think of that. Did she become an adherent of such strange view also?
We know very well that the mission of preaching the gospel was assigned to MEN, not to angels. We, members of the Church of Jesus Christ, are the ones who have this task to accomplish (Matt. 28:19, 20), not supernatural beings.
Moreover, by this fantastic interpretation we have a God who discriminates Jew against Jew! For if He is going to send angels to preach the gospel to the last generation of Jews, why didn’t the previous generations have the same privilege? And who would resist to that preaching, knowing that it came from an angel? All would be converted forcefully, under the influence and impact of the supernatural aspect of this preaching itself.
These three angels of Revelation 14 just represent the human messengers with such a task to carry out. The meaning of the word ‘angel’ is exactly ‘messenger’. Now, I think that the Adventist interpretation is so logic, so coherent, so inspiring, and I wonder HOW OTHERS would interpret it. I would love to hear Ms. Macomber giving me her exegesis of these verses to compare with ours. Would she have something better to say regarding these texts?
On the light of Chapter 13 of the same book we see once more that the final conflict will happen regarding genuine versus false worship, as also highlighted in chap. 14:6-14.
The Three Messages and What They Stand For
What we find in the aforementioned chapter 14 of Revelation is a message that centers on the genuine worship to God as Creator of “heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters” in contrast with the denunciation of the false worship.
Let’s compare now the language of Revelation 14:6 y 7 with Exodus 20:11 to come to an important discovery:
“I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come; and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the seas, and the fountains of waters” (Rev. 14:6, 7).
“For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it” (Exo. 20:11).
Both texts are in undeniable parallel. Christianity Today mentioned a time ago that the precept of the day of rest was “the most neglected” among all the Decalogue’s principles. That is precisely where the “memorial of creation” is located. The Creator and His creation are emphasized in this final warning message.
Thus, the final preaching of the “everlasting gospel” is concerned with awakening the world regarding the genuine worship to God as Creator of memorable works, an aspect of the Christian message distorted by the dominant Church in the Medieval Era, something that the Protestant Reformation failed to correct. The result of that can be seen today with so many Catholic and Protestant religious people, even ministers and priests, adhering to modernist notions of evolution of the species, which contradicts the basic teaching of the Scriptures on the so-called “basic trinomial of the Christian faith”—Creation-Fall-Redemption. And in the face of such a militancy of Atheism as never seen before, how important it is for us to highlight this aspect of the Christian message—God, the Creator of everything, Who deserves our special homage for this aspect of His being in relation to our own lives on this planet.
The Contrast Between the Seal of God and the Mark of the Beast
The prophetic text of Revelation also highlights a denunciation of the false worship:
“If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation” (Rev. 14:9, 10).
As in the context we read about a “seal of God” and a competing sign, or “mark of the beast”, and since in Romans 4:11 we see that “sign” and “seal” are synonyms, one has just to understand two things:
a) What is the “seal of God”.
b) What would be the “mark of the beast”.
We have already seen how Exo. 31:16, 18 and Eze. 20:12, 20 confirm that the Sabbath is God’s seal, which is not annulled nor replaced by the granting of the Holy Spirit as “sealing” element in the process of a Christian’s justification. The “sign” or “seal” of circumcision to Abraham didn’t annul nor replace God’s Spirit in his life experience.
But, don’t the texts of Exo. 31:16, 17 and Eze. 20:12, 20 indicate that this sign is between God and Israel? Yes, God established His pact with Israel, but why was that so? Why wasn’t the divine pact established with the Egyptians, Babylonians, Assyrians, Libyans? Anyone who can answer this question will have half way through to understand the whole question. Can Macomber or Ratzlaff answer that for us? If they do, they will come to their “aha” of understanding the truth of the matter, which now seems so confusing in their minds.
David, the inspired psalmist, declared in language that certainly has universal character:
“The works of the Lord are great, sought out of all them that have pleasure therein. His work is honourable and glorious: and his righteousness endureth for ever. He hath made his wonderful works to be remembered: the Lord is gracious and full of compassion” (Psa. 111:2-4).
God even invites the foreigners to participate of the promises of the covenant that He established with Israel, in accordance to His ideal that “my house shall be called an house of prayer to all people” (Isa. 56:2-7). Now, on that point we notice that there is a great ignorance among Christians in general regarding the real reason of God’s choosing the nation of Israel. Most religious people don’t understand that Israel was not elected just for being privileged, but to have a special mission—be “witness of IHWH” and a “light to the Gentiles . . . until de ends of the Earth” (Isa. 43:10 and 49:6).
Israel was supposed to transmit the message of the true God, His law and His plan of salvation to all nations around. So much so that it was placed in a very strategic region of the world even to this day—the cross point of Europe, Asia and Africa. Had Israel fulfilled its mission, the conditions of this planet would be very different, as pictured in the Psalm 67:
“God be merciful unto us, and bless us; and cause his face to shine upon us; Selah. That thy way may be known upon earth, thy saving health among all nations. Let the people praise thee, O God; let all the people praise thee. O let the nations be glad and sing for joy: for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah. Let the people praise thee, O God; let all the people praise thee. Then shall the earth yield her increase; and God, even our own God, shall bless us. God shall bless us; and all the ends of the earth shall fear him”.
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Re: Does Ephesians 1:13 Implode SDA "Seal of God" Interpretation?
[Re: Azenilto]
#125665
05/31/10 05:18 PM
05/31/10 05:18 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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We have already seen how Exo. 31:16, 18 and Eze. 20:12, 20 confirm that the Sabbath is God’s seal, which is not annulled nor replaced by the granting of the Holy Spirit as “sealing” element in the process of a Christian’s justification. The “sign” or “seal” of circumcision to Abraham didn’t annul nor replace God’s Spirit in his life experience. Good point, Elder Azenilto.
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Re: Does Ephesians 1:13 Implode SDA "Seal of God" Interpretation?
[Re: Azenilto]
#125671
06/01/10 04:08 AM
06/01/10 04:08 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Does Ephesians say anything about God’s Spirit REPLACING another seal of God? It doesn’t. By the way, we read in Rom. 4:11:
“And he {Abraham} received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also”.
This text gives us important guidance to understand this question of God’s seal. First of all, it shows that “sign” and “seal” are used as synonyms in the Bible.
When I read this verse, I get the understanding that it was the sign of circumcision which sealed the covenant between Abraham and God. This is further confirmed by being how the verse is translated in my Swedish bible. Unfortunately this removes the basis for your argument which follows, within this post. Will you try again?
To have a special “sign” from God is to have a “seal”. Was Abraham destituted of God’s Spirit when he received that “sign” or ‘”seal” of circumcision, which, in his case, is related to his being justified by faith? No way. How come the “father of faith” wouldn’t have been also sealed for salvation through having God’s Spirit? After all it is said regarding him: “I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed” (Gen 12:3) had him not God’s Spirit?
Now, Seventh-day Adventists do teach that the Sabbath is God’s seal. That is clearly said in Exo. 31:16, 17 (“Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed”), which is confirmed centuries later through the Prophet Ezekiel (“And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God”— 20:20).
In this context it would be worthwhile to highlight that the Baptists, in their “Doctrinal Declaration” of the National Baptist Convention, of Brazil, quote Exodus 31:14-18 in the footnotes of Topic XV, that deals with the day of observance (in a section they call “Christian Sabbath”) confirming the notion that the commandment related to the rest day, to be totally dedicated to God, is the “sign” between God and His people. That makes very good sense because Atheists, materialists and lax Christians are not characterized as those who dedicate a special period of time to God regularly every week. In the case of the latter, that is done in a way to adjust to their convenience.
[To be concluded in the next thread][/size][/font]
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Does Ephesians 1:13 Implode SDA "Seal of God" Interpretation?
[Re: vastergotland]
#125672
06/01/10 10:47 AM
06/01/10 10:47 AM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Vaster,
I didn't get it. In which way what you said removes the basis for Azenilto's argument?
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Re: Does Ephesians 1:13 Implode SDA "Seal of God" Interpretation?
[Re: Rosangela]
#125675
06/01/10 12:09 PM
06/01/10 12:09 PM
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Active Member 2011
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
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Azenilto argues that Rom. 4:11 proves that the bible regards seal=sign as synonyms. I point out that it is a mere feature of translation that those two words both occur in the same sentence in the KJV translation. Without the sign=seal synonym connection, Azenilto does not have an argument in this thread. To save his point, he will therefore have to substantiate this connection with some additional data which does not hinge upon one verse in one specific translation.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Does Ephesians 1:13 Implode SDA "Seal of God" Interpretation?
[Re: vastergotland]
#125685
06/01/10 11:45 PM
06/01/10 11:45 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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There is little doubt that the words sign (semeion) and seal (sfragis) are closely related in meaning in Rom. 4:11. The sign of the circumcision was the seal of the covenant.
Here is how the three words - sign (semeion), seal (sfragis) and mark (charagma) - are used:
In Revelation we have the seal (sfragis) of God and the mark (charagma) of the beast being put in the foreheads of men.
In Ezekiel 9, the mark which should be put on the foreheads of men is rendered in the LXX as semeion.
So what I see is that the three words - semeion, sfragis and charagma - are closely related in meaning, and all of them refer to the imprinting of a mark of property.
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Re: Does Ephesians 1:13 Implode SDA "Seal of God" Interpretation?
[Re: Rosangela]
#125690
06/02/10 04:43 AM
06/02/10 04:43 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Wow Rosangela,
You have just proven that sign and mark are synonyms, thus further proving (using the same reasoning as in this threads initial posts) that every verse which use the word "sign" can at will be replaced with the word "mark". I am unsure of whether this connects Ezekiel 9 to the mark of the beast or the other way around though. Further study will have to show if it is the angle in Ezekiel who administers the mark of the beast to the righteous or if it is the beast who gives his worshipers the mark of the angle in Ezekiel 9.
Seriously, do you see how ridiculous this way of doing "biblestudy" is? Or do you fail to do so on the basis that the first (Azenilto) "proves" what you already regard being true whereas this second example does not do so? The method is exactly the same in both cases so any difference must be rooted in your preconceived understanding of the points being made.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Does Ephesians 1:13 Implode SDA "Seal of God" Interpretation?
[Re: vastergotland]
#125697
06/02/10 02:35 PM
06/02/10 02:35 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Vaster,
Semeion in Ezekiel 9 is translated as "sign" in our Portuguese version. The way the words are translated - mark, sign or seal - is irrelevant. It's obvious that the three words, as I said, refer to the imprinting of a mark of property. God has His own mark and Satan has his own mark. The writer of Revelation just uses a different (although synonymous) word in order to make a clear distinction between the marks. It's obvious that the meaning of the three words is closely related. It seems to me your preconceived ideas prevent you from seeing this.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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