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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128783
11/11/10 01:07 PM
11/11/10 01:07 PM
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Brazil
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You mean like the Quaker who warned the thief robbing his house, “Sir, I mean thee no harm, but I am about to shoot where thou standest”? That one was very good.
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: Tom]
#128800
11/11/10 07:16 PM
11/11/10 07:16 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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What's even funnier is how Tom avoided addressing the questions: T: I think the principles of GC 35-37 apply. There's different ways that could have happened. I think God did not send from heaven with the intent of killing Elijah's enemies. They could have put themselves in harm's way.
M: You mean like the Quaker who warned the thief robbing his house, “Sir, I mean thee no harm, but I am about to shoot where thou standest”? Did God send the fire from heaven? Or, did God permit Satan to do it? Did Elijah attempt to save the two bands of fifty by warning them not to stand in the wrong spot?
T: Regarding the Elijah questions, Elijah was not sent to reveal God's character: Christ was. If we wish to see what God is like, we should look at Jesus Christ while hear in the flesh. That's why He came.
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128821
11/12/10 02:55 PM
11/12/10 02:55 PM
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OP
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I think he did. He said instead of using Elijah to compare God to, you should use Christ to compare God to.
Do you really expect him to make a comparison using something he thinks is wrong and disagrees with?
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: kland]
#128828
11/12/10 06:39 PM
11/12/10 06:39 PM
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Tom, do you think Elijah misrepresented God's character when he prayed for fire to burn alive the two bands of fifty? Also, who or what caused the fire to come down in response to Elijah's prayer?
Regarding the origin of the fire, Ellen wrote: Twice Ahaziah sent a company of soldiers to intimidate the prophet, and twice the wrath of an offended God fell upon them in judgments. The third company of soldiers humbled themselves before God; and their captain, as he approached the Lord's messenger, "fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight. Behold, there came fire down from heaven, and burnt up the two captains of the former fifties with their fifties: therefore let my life now be precious in thy sight." {RH, January 15, 1914 par. 4}
And regarding Elijah representing the character of God, Ellen wrote: Elijah, in his position as a prophet to Israel, had represented Christ, and his work had been, in a degree, similar to that of the Saviour. {5BC 1096.3} Elijah, who had been translated to heaven without seeing death, represented those who will be living upon the earth at Christ's second coming . . . {DA 421.4} Those who are to prepare the way for the second coming of Christ are represented by faithful Elijah, as John came in the spirit of Elijah to prepare the way for Christ's first advent. {3T 62.1}
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128831
11/12/10 07:44 PM
11/12/10 07:44 PM
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Mountain Man, do you think we should/will call fire down from heaven?
And regarding Elijah representing the character of God, Ellen wrote: Elijah, in his position as a prophet to Israel, had represented Christ, and his work had been, in a degree, similar to that of the Saviour. {5BC 1096.3} Elijah, who had been translated to heaven without seeing death, represented those who will be living upon the earth at Christ's second coming . . . {DA 421.4} Those who are to prepare the way for the second coming of Christ are represented by faithful Elijah, as John came in the spirit of Elijah to prepare the way for Christ's first advent. {3T 62.1}
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: kland]
#128838
11/12/10 10:00 PM
11/12/10 10:00 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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Tom, do you think Elijah misrepresented God's character when he prayed for fire to burn alive the two bands of fifty? Also, who or what caused the fire to come down in response to Elijah's prayer?
Regarding the origin of the fire, Ellen wrote: Twice Ahaziah sent a company of soldiers to intimidate the prophet, and twice the wrath of an offended God fell upon them in judgments. The third company of soldiers humbled themselves before God; and their captain, as he approached the Lord's messenger, "fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight. Behold, there came fire down from heaven, and burnt up the two captains of the former fifties with their fifties: therefore let my life now be precious in thy sight." {RH, January 15, 1914 par. 4}
And regarding Elijah representing the character of God, Ellen wrote: Elijah, in his position as a prophet to Israel, had represented Christ, and his work had been, in a degree, similar to that of the Saviour. {5BC 1096.3} Elijah, who had been translated to heaven without seeing death, represented those who will be living upon the earth at Christ's second coming . . . {DA 421.4} Those who are to prepare the way for the second coming of Christ are represented by faithful Elijah, as John came in the spirit of Elijah to prepare the way for Christ's first advent. {3T 62.1} I think what I said before, which is if you want to know what God is like, you should look to Jesus Christ here in His earthly mission, as this was His purpose. As Heb. 1:1-3 points out, God in the past spoke to us in various ways, but now has spoken to us through His Son, who is the exact imprint of His image. Enoch was not that. Christ was. Christ's revelation was superior to that of Moses or Elijah, or anyone else. That's the testimony of the New Testament. For example, "The law came through Moses, but grace and truth have come to us through Jesus Christ." Does this mean there wasn't any grace or truth in the time of Moses? Of course not. John's point is that the revelation of Jesus Christ is superior to that of Moses.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: Tom]
#128849
11/13/10 04:34 AM
11/13/10 04:34 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Tom, do you agree "the wrath of an offended God fell upon them in judgments" when Elijah prayed for fire to burn alive the bands of fifty? Twice Ahaziah sent a company of soldiers to intimidate the prophet, and twice the wrath of an offended God fell upon them in judgments. The third company of soldiers humbled themselves before God; and their captain, as he approached the Lord's messenger, "fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight. Behold, there came fire down from heaven, and burnt up the two captains of the former fifties with their fifties: therefore let my life now be precious in thy sight." {RH, January 15, 1914 par. 4}
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128863
11/15/10 01:50 AM
11/15/10 01:50 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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Tom, do you agree "the wrath of an offended God fell upon them in judgments" when Elijah prayed for fire to burn alive the bands of fifty? I think if we wish to understand God's character, we should look to Christ. Regarding God's wrath, Scripture presents this as God's "giving up" those who have rejected Him to the results of their choice, the same principle as described in GC 35-37. I think the Elijah incident is this same principle. However, I think this tack of focusing on the Old Testament is hopeless, if the goal is to understand God's character. But studying the life of Christ, especially the latter scenes, is hopeful.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: Tom]
#128870
11/15/10 05:47 PM
11/15/10 05:47 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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M: Tom, do you agree with Ellen that "the wrath of an offended God fell upon them in judgments" when Elijah prayed for fire to burn alive the bands of fifty?
T: I think if we wish to understand God's character, we should look to Christ. Regarding God's wrath, Scripture presents this as God's "giving up" those who have rejected Him to the results of their choice, the same principle as described in GC 35-37. I think the Elijah incident is this same principle. However, I think this tack of focusing on the Old Testament is hopeless, if the goal is to understand God's character. But studying the life of Christ, especially the latter scenes, is hopeful. Here's what Ellen wrote about the Old Testament: Christ is revealed in the Old Testament as clearly as in the New. {3SP 211.2}
"Let not your heart be troubled," He said; "ye believe in God," who is so plainly revealed in the Old Testament Scriptures. {ST, December 20, 1899 par. 5}
The prophets spoke through the messengers of Christ in the Old Testament as much as the apostles voiced His messages in the New Testament, and there is no contradiction between their teachings. {1SM 345.1}
Many professed Christians throw aside the Old Testament, and shut themselves up to the New. The cry now is, "Away with the law and the prophets, and give us the gospel of Christ." {3SP 211.1} 1. Do you agree with Ellen that the Father is "plainly revealed in the Old Testament Scriptures"? 2. Do you agree with her that "Christ is revealed in the Old Testament as clearly as in the New"? 3. Do you agree with Ellen that "the wrath of an offended God fell upon them in judgments" when Elijah prayed for fire to burn alive the two bands of fifty? 4. In what way do you see "the Elijah incident" and the incident described in GC 35-37 as "the same principle"?
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128874
11/15/10 06:04 PM
11/15/10 06:04 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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I think Ellen White agrees with the message of the NT that Christ is a greater revelation than Moses, or Elijah, or any other prophet, or any other thing. The whole point of Scripture is to direct us to Christ. Christ is the revelation of God. This is the foundation of Christianity.
John starts out his Gospel explaining that no one has seen God, but Jesus Christ, God's Son, who knew Him best, has shown us what God is really like.
EGW explain in "The Desire of Ages" that there was darkness concerning God's character until Christ came. Christ is the sun of righteousness who comes with healing in His wings by making known God's character.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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