Where is there any statement in the Bible or the Spirit of Prophesy that perfection of character is an instantaneous process? (which being born again is -- or perhaps you have a different idea of what it means to be born again).

Yes, rebirth is an instant act of re-creative power. After a "long... patient, protracted process" we are born again morally complete in Christ. God implants within us all the fruits of the Spirit and all of His righteous attributes of character. Not one is missing. However, we are not born again morally mature. The perfection of Christian character is the work of a lifetime. Like Jesus, we must nurture, foster, and develop each individual trait of character as we grow from glory to glory, from faith to faith, from grace to grace. This process of sanctification continues throughout this life and throughout eternal life. Eternity isn't long enough to exhaust our potential to mature more and more, to become more and more like Jesus.

I hear you saying, and please correct me if I’ve misunderstood you, that we are born again morally defective, that our sinful traits of character devolve, diminish, and disappear gradually, and that while this is going on we gradually accumulate the fruits of the Spirit and the righteous attributes of God. And, you also seem to imply that only the 144,000 will actually attain to perfection of Christian character, that it isn’t possible for the rest of us. I realize I may have misstated your view, so please, don’t ask me to go back and research everything you’ve posted, just state your position clearly. Thank you.

I do not know of any Bible or SOP quotes that say or imply we can complete a lifetime of sanctification is a moment of time. But there are plenty of places where it says we are born again dead to sin and awake to righteous. You are already aware of my favorite quotes supporting this insight, but I can repost them again if you want me to. The thief on the cross was born again morally complete. He received the implanted character traits of God, just like any other born again believer, the difference is he didn’t have time to fully develop them. But our ticket to heaven doesn’t depend on how well we develop each trait of character that was implanted within us the moment we were born again. Instead, our ticket to heaven is rebirth.

How do you explain the difference between being born of the flesh and being born of the Spirit? What is the difference between walking after the flesh and walking after the Spirit?

John
3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Romans
8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

We are born again as beings who are at peace with God and in harmony with His will. However, character takes time to develop. The Spirit of Prophesy makes this point repeatedly. I don't agree with your characterization of my position because you use words in what seems to me to be a very strange way. Given your definition of "defects of character" that would mean "knowingly and willfully sinning" and you should know that's not what I believe.

Your view seems to be that our characters are perfected in an instant, the moment we believe in Christ. I was asking for some SOP statement to that effect.

Perhaps COL 65, 66 could be relevant to this study:

"The germination of the seed represents the beginning of spiritual life, and the development of the plant is a beautiful figure of Christian growth. As in nature, so in grace; there can be no life without growth. The plant must either grow or die. As its growth is silent and imperceptible, but continuous, so is the development of the Christian life. At every stage of development our life may be perfect; yet if God's purpose for us is fulfilled, there will be continual advancement. Sanctification is the work of a lifetime. As our opportunities multiply, our experience will enlarge, and our knowledge increase. We shall become strong to bear responsibility, and our maturity will be in proportion to our privileges."

Now, Mike, I'm not really sure I understand what you are saying. Let's discuss a practical exemple. The apostles, for instance. They were walking with Christ but they had character defects. Do you mean they hadn't been born again?

I'm reposting this because I hope we can discuss it:

quote:

---

How do you explain the difference between being born of the flesh and being born of the Spirit? What is the difference between walking after the flesh and walking after the Spirit?

John
3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Romans
8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

---

Rosangela, the disciples did not experience the miracle of rebirth until after Jesus’ resurrection, until after He breathed on them the Holy Spirit. At that point, they were born again. Self, the old man habits of sin, died. They were raised to newness of life. Walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man they did not, and could not, sin according to their former defective traits of character.

However, if they disconnected from abiding in Jesus, they were just as incapable of resisting sin as before they were born again. Of course, repentance restores the relationship sin severs, and born again believers resume walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man. Remember, rebirth is a radical transformation, not a radical evolution.

Galatians
5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

1 John
3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

MH 180
The Saviour took upon Himself the infirmities of humanity and lived a sinless life, that men might have no fear that because of the weakness of human nature they could not overcome. Christ came to make us "partakers of the divine nature," and His life declares that humanity, combined with divinity, does not commit sin. {MH 180.5}

DA 664
Jesus revealed no qualities, and exercised no powers, that men may not have through faith in Him. His perfect humanity is that which all His followers may possess, if they will be in subjection to God as He was. {DA 664.4}

Isnt there a general agreement in this thread that all humans grow from not knowing God to being perfect as He is perfect, with the difference that some believe being born again happends in the beginning of the journey while others believe its a result of a successfull journey?

/Thomas