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#134439 - 06/12/11 03:22 PM Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White *** [Re: His child]
NJK Project Offline
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Originally Posted By: His child
You misunderstand still. The Bible does not teach a resurrected John-Paul II replacing Benedict XVI.The two great errors in the endtime are the state of the dead and Sunday. Satan will appear as Pope John-Paul II claiming to be him while his body is still in its crypt.


And it ultimately still makes absolutely no difference. Your next Pope has to be “someone” who will be recognized as JP II.

Originally Posted By: His child
After reading your post, I am consoled by the Holy Spirit's promise "The wise shall understand." (Daniel 12:10)

Lest we forget it is also written in 1Co 2:14

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."


Manifestly, given your complete lack of a substantive response to my objection to your ‘reversed Alpha-Omega sequencing’ claim, one has to accept it by faith since it does not pass an objective Biblical validity test. (Acts 17:11) I.e., when Jesus said ‘the last (eschatos) shall be first (protos) and vice versa’ (Matt 20:16) he really meant ‘a letter W (omega) will be found after an A (alpha).’ Whatever!!! Indeed “whatever” spirit led you to jump to that conclusion is a false one. Quite creative, but diversionarily, completely false! You’ll need people who are Biblically illiterate and Spiritually bankrupt to accept this “(SDA) Bible Code” of yours. Indeed there is nothing “Spiritual” to even begin to “discern” in your interpretations and claims.

Like I said before, at this point, given that your interpretations have not been established on an objectively and transparently factual/exegetical/historical basis, you should save the condemning denunciations at least until you have first taken the time and made the effort to do so. At this point all that one has for your view given their substantive invalidity (indeed to me they are not even “plausible”) is some claim of Spiritual impression!??

As Biblical Prophetic history reveals God never leads someone to make claims that cannot be proven to be true from His already revealed Testimony. (Isa 8:20) And God’s Spirit has no difficulty with being objectively exegetical. What it may further reveal is in full exegetical harmony with its past revelations. Even Ellen White made the Bible the final authority and as seen in her direct revelations, Biblical Exegesis fully applies.

Originally Posted By: His child
Thus as every man works out his own salvation with fear and trembling, he must evaluate his own wisdom whether it be of God or of human devising.


And that is done by fully, properly and objectively subjecting one’s wisdom and spiritual experiences to the established word of God. (John 3:21)

Originally Posted By: His child
The truth shall stand, though all that appears pleasing to the eye that is not of God, will pass away.


And the operative word here is: the Truth. There quite readily demonstratively is nothing resembling this in your interpretations. Just mere whimsical conjectures, leading to private interpretations.
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“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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#134441 - 06/12/11 05:22 PM Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: Mark Shipowick]
glenm Offline
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I thought it might be well to get back to Mark's original purpose for this thread, that of highlighting some EGW statements about future prophetic fulfillments.

Here's an interesting one, about the church prophesying in sackcloth at some future point. This would appear to have a connection with Revelation 11.

Quote:
Until Christ shall appear in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, men will become perverse in spirit and turn from the truth to fables. The church will yet see troublous times. She will prophesy in sackcloth. {4T 594.3}
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#134442 - 06/12/11 06:34 PM Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: glenm]
Daryl Online   canada

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I guess we seem to have two main discussions in this thread, which may necessitate separating the two into their own respective threads.

Originally Posted By: glenm
I thought it might be well to get back to Mark's original purpose for this thread, that of highlighting some EGW statements about future prophetic fulfillments.

Here's an interesting one, about the church prophesying in sackcloth at some future point. This would appear to have a connection with Revelation 11.

Quote:
Until Christ shall appear in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, men will become perverse in spirit and turn from the truth to fables. The church will yet see troublous times. She will prophesy in sackcloth. {4T 594.3}

_________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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#134443 - 06/12/11 07:16 PM Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: glenm]
NJK Project Offline
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Originally Posted By: glenm
I thought it might be well to get back to Mark's original purpose for this thread, that of highlighting some EGW statements about future prophetic fulfillments.

Here's an interesting one, about the church prophesying in sackcloth at some future point. This would appear to have a connection with Revelation 11.

Quote:
Until Christ shall appear in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, men will become perverse in spirit and turn from the truth to fables. The church will yet see troublous times. She will prophesy in sackcloth. {4T 594.3}


My general understanding of EGW’s view in all of this is that she fully perceived, especially as “time” continued to be “prolonged”, that many prophecies in the Bible could be refulfilled in the post-1844 “Eschatological” time, and that includes Rev 11. Her revelations probably lead her to see many parallels with those Historically fulfilled prophecies. And she probably saw the precedence for this in Christ’s Olivet discourse. That is why e.g., she could see the a reoccurring, but now even more Spiritual siege of Jerusalem in the end for the SDA Church, and that despite understanding that this had also typologically occurred in Church History. Same goes for the prophecy of Rev 11. She just understood that no definite time would be involved in any of these possible refulfillments.
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“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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#134444 - 06/12/11 07:20 PM Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: NJK Project]
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By the way, correcting a substantively-significant typo in my earlier comment in response to His child:

Originally Posted By: NJK Project (correction in Post #134439)
... I.e., when Jesus said ‘the last (eschatos) shall be first (protos) and vice versa’ (Matt 20:16), he really meant ‘a letter W (omega) will be found before an A (alpha).’
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“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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#134526 - 06/15/11 08:24 PM Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: NJK Project]
His child Offline
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Here is an obscure quote
Originally Posted By: EGW

Satan is striving to gain every advantage. He desires to secure, not only students, but teachers. He has his plans laid. Disguised as an angel of light, he will walk the earth as a wonder-worker. In beautiful language he will present lofty sentiments. Good words will be spoken by him, and good deeds performed. Christ will be personified, but on one point there will be a marked distinction. Satan will turn the people from the law of God. Notwithstanding this, so well will he counterfeit righteousness, that if it were possible, he would deceive the very elect. Crowned heads, presidents, rulers in high places, will bow to his false theories. Instead of giving place to criticism, division, jealousy, and rivalry, those in our schools should be one in Christ. Only thus can they resist the temptations of the arch-deceiver. {RH, August 17, 1897 par. 14}
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#134529 - 06/16/11 05:08 AM Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: His child]
NJK Project Offline
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In my studies, I came across this SOP quote which adds another dimension to this Angel of Light Deception of Satan. It is a key snare as it is one that would most readily ensnare SDA’s:

Originally Posted By: SOP ST, April 12, 1883 par. 1-3ff
The holy Scriptures inform us that, in the last days, Satan will work with power, and signs, and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness. To those who do not love the truth he even appears as an angel of light. These words are fulfilled in the deceptions and false teachings of the present time. Spiritualists make the path to hell most attractive. Spirits of darkness are clothed by these deceptive teachers in pure robes of Heaven, and they have power to deceive those not fortified with Bible truth. {ST, April 12, 1883 par. 1}

Vain philosophy is employed in representing the path to hell as a path of safety. With the imagination highly wrought, and voices musically tuned, they picture the broad road as one of happiness and glory. Ambition holds before deluded souls, as Satan presented to Eve, a freedom and bliss for them to enjoy which they never conceived was possible. Men are praised who have traveled the broad path to hell, and after they die are exalted to the highest positions in the eternal world. Satan, clothed in robes of brightness, appearing like an exalted angel, tempted the world's Redeemer without success. But as he comes to man robed as an angel of light he has better success. He covers his hideous purposes, and succeeds too well in deluding the unwary who are not firmly anchored upon eternal truth. {ST, April 12, 1883 par. 2}

Riches, power, genius, eloquence, pride, perverted reason, and passion, are enlisted as Satan's agents in doing his work in making the broad road attractive, strewing it with tempting flowers. ...


Given that SDA’s understand (a) the manner of Christ Return and (b) the State of the Dead, then they most likely will not be deceived by (a) Satan appearing as Christ (e.g, walking about in Jerusalem and performing miracles) without effectuating this Glorious Second coming nor (b) appearing as deceased loved ones (ST, April 12, 1883 par. 7&8) who are, moreover, teaching that the Sabbath has been changed to Sunday, and that even merely through the “mediation” of “Spiritualists”. However it is this ‘making of the “path to hell most attractive” and “a path of safety”’ through the ‘vain philosophies, deceptions and false teachings of the present time that have “have power to deceive those not fortified with Bible truth”’ that is indeed most successful among even SDA Christians. Preying on desires of happiness, glory, ambition, freedom and bliss and through “riches, power, genius, eloquence, pride, perverted reason, and passion” Satan indeed is ‘successful in covering his hideous purposes, and does succeed too well in deluding the unwary who are not firmly anchored upon eternal truth.’

It is most significant to me that EGW including in 1SP (=EW 133ff) just after such a discussion in a chapter on Spiritualism, where ‘it seemed that the whole world was on board’ (EW 263.1ff), and just before a chapter on “The Shaking (EW 269ff), a warning chapter on the sin of ‘Covetousness’ (EW 266ff). Indeed Satan’s plan in this is to: ‘lay snares especially for those who were looking for Christ's second appearing and keeping all the commandments of God.’ It is actually his choice plan vs. ‘increasing his power and lying wonders’ as this would better serve to hold SDA Churches in their sleep and not rouse them to work against him by recognizing clear signs of his workings. And so he has given the instruction to: ‘Go, make the possessors of lands and money drunk with cares. For if his agents can make them place their affections upon these things, they shall have them yet.’ (EW 266.1)

Indeed all of these counsels have been fulfilled upon the SDA Church in the individual and corporate reverence that they pay to Capitalism. (Cf. this post). As patently seen throughout this topically dedicated thread, speaking against Capitalism for the more Biblical socio-economic will and laws of God is considered as an “anathema”. And so the SDA Church is marching lockstep with the world in obey the dictates of ‘making money’ vs. seeking to do God’s Sabbatical will.

This attitude and development, also realized upon SDA’s fullfills the most crucial ensnaring precursor for the full fulfillment of Rev 13:13-17. But of course, SDA’s are only to look for a “Letter of the Law” fulfillment of the Mark of the Beast (= Sunday Sacredness Law)! The Mark of the Beast is, fully, actually anything that opposes God’s full Sabbath as Divinely expounded upon in Isa 58, and thus includes this violation of the Bible’s Sabbatical socio-economic laws and principles.
_________________________
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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#134530 - 06/16/11 09:28 AM Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: His child]
NJK Project Offline
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Just a further observation and question in regards to His child’s quote&comment:

Originally Posted By: SOP RH, August 17, 1897 par. 14
Christ will be personified, but on one point there will be a marked distinction. Satan will turn the people from the law of God. Notwithstanding this, so well will he counterfeit righteousness, that if it were possible, he would deceive the very elect.


As stated in my comments above, clearly Satan’s deception will be capable of succeeding upon even SDA’s, who are furthermore expecting this. They, of course, will be looking for this key ‘(letter-of-the) law substituting’ action and teaching, however the SOP is warning that the most successful deception will will revolve around “counterfeit righteousneoss”. As “righteousness” is “the conformity of heart and life to the divine law” as made concretely manifest in ‘doing what is right’, it is further seen how Capitalism is a key contributor to this counterfeit. Only the “elect”, i.e., the 144,000+, will not be deceived by this, for they will be sealed with the “full” understanding of God’s Sabbath.

Indeed in Capitalism it is perfectly okay to “live and let die” all in the name of ‘making a profit/money and Christians, even SDA’s either wholeheartedly support this senselessness and/or, for those who see the wrong and unbiblicalness in it, just mutely, out of fear of ‘suffering vital need’, go along with it. (= a precursor fulfillment of Rev 13:15-17, which currently does not need to be overtly enforced.)

Question:
His child: What are you actually finding as “obscure” in EGW’s statement. Seem to me that her statement: “Crowned heads, presidents, rulers in high places, will bow to his false theories” is rightly indicative that even heads of states will accept these false theories of Satan. (Indeed as the spurious system of Capitalism is currently widely accepted by all but less than a handful of world governments.)
_________________________
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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#134596 - 06/18/11 12:07 PM Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: NJK Project]
Mark Shipowick Offline
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Thank you for that quote Glen. Notice the last part of the same paragraph:
Quote:
Until Christ shall appear in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, men will become perverse in spirit and turn from the truth to fables. The church will yet see troublous times. She will prophesy in sackcloth. But although she must meet heresies and persecutions, although she must battle with the infidel and the apostate, yet by the help of God she is bruising the head of Satan. The Lord will have a people as true as steel, and with faith as firm as the granite rock. They are to be His witnesses in the world, His instrumentalities to do a special, a glorious work in the day of His preparation. {4T 594.3}


She not only re-applies Revelation 11 to the future, she identifies the Two Witnesses by first saying that 'she', the church, will prophesy again - the work of the two witnesses. In other words the witnesses are the church. But if this was not clear enough she continues to expand the thought by stating that the true church, those who are like steel and granite in their faith, will be His witnesses.

For me, this is another of those almost irresistible invitations to be among those who deliver the Loud Cry message of the third and fourth angels. I don't believe I'm in that class of granite and steel yet, but do I ever want to be!
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#134601 - 06/18/11 02:59 PM Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: Mark Shipowick]
NJK Project Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
In other words the witnesses are the church.


I do not see that the Church is necessarily the Two Witnesses, (i.e., per se) but it will indeed do the “Moses and Elijah” work of the Two Witnesses, thus fulfilling this symbolic depiction. That is of course, if it ever gets around to doing this work, as it fully entails, and that currently is a big “IF”. They are in fact acting the Israel parts that Moses and Elijah had to strongly deal against, i.e., conflatedly, ‘adhering and bowing down to Church-work impeding worldly customs and policies’. ()

Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
For me, this is another of those almost irresistible invitations to be among those who deliver the Loud Cry message of the third and fourth angels. I don't believe I'm in that class of granite and steel yet, but do I ever want to be!


You can get a great head start/crash course by understanding and heeding the “fuller” implication in God’s Sabbath as seen in its intertwined socio-economic principles. Honestly/Seriously... see the posts in my blog for more.
_________________________
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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