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Why cant we Forgive and Restore as we should but chose to Condemn and Destroy?
#134543
06/17/11 09:58 AM
06/17/11 09:58 AM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,127
Florida, USA
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I guess I just dont get it. We are supposed to forgive and yet we dont, we say we will till something happens and then things change. Arnold Schwarzenegger's secret comes out as the boy grows and reveals by his looks who the father is, and Maria Shriver forgives the maid, but destroys him and their marriage.
I was amazed when Tiger Woods took a beating (literaly) from his wife and crashed into the tree unconcious. I thought, he will never be forgiven, but it seemed like he tried to make it right and went to counseling, but something went wrong, and his wife gave him another beating with her lawyer and took what she could and left. Needless to say, Tiger was not forgiven or restored by his wife, and he seems to be going downhill fast since then.....
You might say oh, that is just how others react, but I see the same thing with Adventist. A sin such as adultery happens, and there is no forgiveness, no restoration. Instead there is a run for the lawyers, a destructive struggle with much comdemnation all around, and a devastating result for marriage, children, friends and to spiritual and emotional health.
Why do I see so many Adventist (or Christian marriages) fail when they are professed to be a match made-in heaven? When they have done everything right before getting married (waiting andnot having sex before marriage, reading Christian marriage books, studying each others character, doing their research, going to pre-marital counselling etc..) Why do Adventists end up forgetting about forgiveness and restoration and end up in bitter condemnation of each other, separation - divorce?
Am I missing something, or is there a reason we dont forgive each other our sins, especially when it comes to adultery.
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Re: Why cant we Forgive and Restore as we should but chose to Condemn and Destroy?
[Re: Rick H]
#134554
06/17/11 03:37 PM
06/17/11 03:37 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
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Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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The Good Book says... For jealousy is the rage of a man: therefore he will not spare in the day of vengeance. (Proverbs 6:34)
Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame. (Song of Solomon 8:6)
And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy. (Ezekiel 16:38) Clearly, jealousy is a big thing here. And I'm not sure that it's all bad. God Himself is Jealous. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Why cant we Forgive and Restore as we should but chose to Condemn and Destroy?
[Re: Rick H]
#134557
06/17/11 04:59 PM
06/17/11 04:59 PM
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Banned Member
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Laval, Quebec
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Adultery involves a quite severe and really, unless one is brainwashed, “unforgettable”, betrayal of friendship, love, trust and more. And in our day and age, and to avoid someone getting cheated either way, a judicial process is further needed to “administer” a divorce.
My view is, the question should (continue to essentially) be: ‘Why commit adultery??’. It does not just happen. There thus indeed is an “unforgivable” element of knowing and deliberate willingness involved here that does greatly poisons that marriage relationship. It is incontrovertible that the one being cheated on is effectively not loved.
As a comparative example, when one lies to, or even steals from, someone else there is usually an underlying reason, of e.g., wanting to protect/shield oneself or obtain something which may even be needed. So it is somewhat easier to forgive this. However in murder, (vs. killing/“manslaughter”), there really is no such “acceptable justification” and so the Biblical penalty is rightly capital punishment. In cases of adultery, that underlying reason is only an absence of actual love and that is what a marriage relationship is truly based upon. (And in such cases, even God judicially legislates that an “unloved” party should be doubly compensated (Deut 21:15-17). This would civilly translate (in a Christian society) in the at-fault party receiving only 1/3 of the “common wealth”).
As alluded to by Green Cochoa, I see that God understands all of this and why He has chosen to depict His relationship with His people as a marriage, as it involves the same free-willed choice of love but also the same hurt when adultery occurs. We were created as emotional beings, indeed here in God’s “likeness”, and it is not to be surprising, or even to be in any way stoically suppressed, that adultery is most hurtful and one is really free to react in whatever way the deem best to restore/maintain their emotional “sanity.”
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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Re: Why cant we Forgive and Restore as we should but chose to Condemn and Destroy?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#134566
06/18/11 02:06 AM
06/18/11 02:06 AM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,127
Florida, USA
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The Good Book says... For jealousy is the rage of a man: therefore he will not spare in the day of vengeance. (Proverbs 6:34)
Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame. (Song of Solomon 8:6)
And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy. (Ezekiel 16:38) Clearly, jealousy is a big thing here. And I'm not sure that it's all bad. God Himself is Jealous. Blessings, Green Cochoa. But how do you say to a Christian or Adventist brother (or sister) forgive seventy times seven, and then say of course except in the case of jealousy....help me understand this dichotomy which clearly has to be in a persons mind at this point, in my opinion...
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Re: Why cant we Forgive and Restore as we should but chose to Condemn and Destroy?
[Re: NJK Project]
#134567
06/18/11 02:09 AM
06/18/11 02:09 AM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,127
Florida, USA
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Adultery involves a quite severe and really, unless one is brainwashed, “unforgettable”, betrayal of friendship, love, trust and more. And in our day and age, and to avoid someone getting cheated either way, a judicial process is further needed to “administer” a divorce.
My view is, the question should (continue to essentially) be: ‘Why commit adultery??’. It does not just happen. There thus indeed is an “unforgivable” element of knowing and deliberate willingness involved here that does greatly poisons that marriage relationship. It is incontrovertible that the one being cheated on is effectively not loved.
As a comparative example, when one lies to, or even steals from, someone else there is usually an underlying reason, of e.g., wanting to protect/shield oneself or obtain something which may even be needed. So it is somewhat easier to forgive this. However in murder, (vs. killing/“manslaughter”), there really is no such “acceptable justification” and so the Biblical penalty is rightly capital punishment. In cases of adultery, that underlying reason is only an absence of actual love and that is what a marriage relationship is truly based upon. (And in such cases, even God judicially legislates that an “unloved” party should be doubly compensated (Deut 21:15-17). This would civilly translate (in a Christian society) in the at-fault party receiving only 1/3 of the “common wealth”).
As alluded to by Green Cochoa, I see that God understands all of this and why He has chosen to depict His relationship with His people as a marriage, as it involves the same free-willed choice of love but also the same hurt when adultery occurs. We were created as emotional beings, indeed here in God’s “likeness”, and it is not to be surprising, or even to be in any way stoically suppressed, that adultery is most hurtful and one is really free to react in whatever way the deem best to restore/maintain their emotional “sanity.” But then why commit any of the sins against our fellowman, they are all betrayals of a trust at some point....
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Re: Why cant we Forgive and Restore as we should but chose to Condemn and Destroy?
[Re: Rick H]
#134574
06/18/11 03:59 AM
06/18/11 03:59 AM
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Banned Member
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
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But how do you say to a Christian or Adventist brother (or sister) forgive seventy times seven, and then say of course except in the case of jealousy....help me understand this dichotomy which clearly has to be in a persons mind at this point, in my opinion... According to my exegetical understanding here, this 490 times of forgiveness involves the person doing the wrong genuinely asking for forgiveness for each of those 490 times. And, I do see it as being probationary (i.e., towards effectuating change or else), as was Israel’s 490 years, to indicate that one should be forgiving towards repenting persons. And as sins like adultery, murder, parental insolence, were to be, by a perfect law, capitally punished upon its first occurrence, Jesus may only have had in mind here, non “capital” sins. Indeed Jesus did instruct: ‘3 heightening strikes and your, literally “out”’ in Matt 18:15-17&18, manifestly for such “capital sins” that merited under God’s Law, ‘one to be tangibly “cut off”, even if not by death. God’s method for dealing with such marital issues of even just suspected Jealousy in Num 5:11-31are quite interesting and indicative to how He considers this to be most serious, in for matter of just peace of mind.
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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Re: Why cant we Forgive and Restore as we should but chose to Condemn and Destroy?
[Re: Rick H]
#134575
06/18/11 04:00 AM
06/18/11 04:00 AM
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Banned Member
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Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
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But then why commit any of the sins against our fellowman, they are all betrayals of a trust at some point.... In a way yes, however unlike in a marital relationship, other people than one’s spouse are not so intimately, emotionally confronted with that type of most cutting betrayal, manifested on various and unique levels. And paramountly, adultery was a capital sin, and thus fully under a single offense probation, if the victim so preferred.
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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Re: Why cant we Forgive and Restore as we should but chose to Condemn and Destroy?
[Re: NJK Project]
#134624
06/20/11 12:50 PM
06/20/11 12:50 PM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,127
Florida, USA
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But then why commit any of the sins against our fellowman, they are all betrayals of a trust at some point.... In a way yes, however unlike in a marital relationship, other people than one’s spouse are not so intimately, emotionally confronted with that type of most cutting betrayal, manifested on various and unique levels. And paramountly, adultery was a capital sin, and thus fully under a single offense probation, if the victim so preferred. Still sin is sin, and if a person confesses and repents we must be ready to forgive. The issue with Samuel Koranteng-Pipim is before us, and if he has confessed and repented, those connected to him should forgive and restore him in their sight..
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Re: Why cant we Forgive and Restore as we should but chose to Condemn and Destroy?
[Re: Rick H]
#134631
06/20/11 09:13 PM
06/20/11 09:13 PM
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Laval, Quebec
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The Biblical teaching (i.e., beyond one’s personal opinions/preference and/or “quaint” maxims) is that (a) some sins were to be judged more severely than others and (b) adultery was Biblical grounds for divorce, as even anchored by Jesus. So it is up to the victimized spouse to make that decision, who most likely will be acting with full knowledge of the truth and fact, especially if that at-fault spouse was truly honest in their confession and plea for forgiveness. If the victimized spouse cannot emotionally/psychologically/intimately live with this sin, even if confessed, and even if forgiven, (as there still is a looming/potential penalty for even forgiven sins (=the fist death)), then that Biblically is their righteous call.
Also, especially in our day and age, adultery/being promiscuous, can be a vital issue of life and death, so I see it as wise for God to allow divorce in such case, especially back in those earlier days when a form of those diseases could not be medically diagnosed.
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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Re: Why cant we Forgive and Restore as we should but chose to Condemn and Destroy?
[Re: NJK Project]
#134643
06/21/11 09:06 PM
06/21/11 09:06 PM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,127
Florida, USA
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The Biblical teaching (i.e., beyond one’s personal opinions/preference and/or “quaint” maxims) is that (a) some sins were to be judged more severely than others and (b) adultery was Biblical grounds for divorce, as even anchored by Jesus. So it is up to the victimized spouse to make that decision, who most likely will be acting with full knowledge of the truth and fact, especially if that at-fault spouse was truly honest in their confession and plea for forgiveness. If the victimized spouse cannot emotionally/psychologically/intimately live with this sin, even if confessed, and even if forgiven, (as there still is a looming/potential penalty for even forgiven sins (=the fist death)), then that Biblically is their righteous call.
Also, especially in our day and age, adultery/being promiscuous, can be a vital issue of life and death, so I see it as wise for God to allow divorce in such case, especially back in those earlier days when a form of those diseases could not be medically diagnosed. Any verses that you feel make adultery as judged more severely than others..
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