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Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ...
[Re: Mountain Man]
#136218
09/24/11 01:26 AM
09/24/11 01:26 AM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Having "defects, weaknesses, and imperfections" isn't referring to character. When Ellen White refers to defects, she means character defects; when she refers to weaknesses, she refers to weak points of character, and when she refers to imperfections, she means imperfections of character. And all these are synonyms for sinful traits of character.
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Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ...
[Re: Rosangela]
#136228
09/24/11 03:54 PM
09/24/11 03:54 PM
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M: Having "defects, weaknesses, and imperfections" isn't referring to character.
R: When Ellen White refers to defects, she means character defects; when she refers to weaknesses, she refers to weak points of character, and when she refers to imperfections, she means imperfections of character. And all these are synonyms for sinful traits of character. Character and defective traits of character are two different realities. Born-again believers can be perfect in character and still have "defects, weaknesses, and imperfections." They are predisposed. In Christ, however, they do not act them out.
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Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ...
[Re: Mountain Man]
#136237
09/24/11 09:02 PM
09/24/11 09:02 PM
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So you are saying that traits of character are not part of the character?
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Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ...
[Re: Rosangela]
#136283
09/27/11 03:53 PM
09/27/11 03:53 PM
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Everyone is born with every human trait of character. But no one develops all of them. Jesus is the only person who developed all of them perfectly. Character is composed of the specific traits we ourselves develop. However, many traits lie dormant and undeveloped. As such, they do not count as character. Evil traits, by the way, are nothing more than perversions of innocent, legitimate traits.
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Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ...
[Re: Mountain Man]
#136390
10/01/11 03:23 PM
10/01/11 03:23 PM
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The idea that having sinful flesh nature counts as sin and corruption is false.
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Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ...
[Re: Mountain Man]
#136394
10/01/11 07:56 PM
10/01/11 07:56 PM
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Everyone is born with every human trait of character. Everybody is born with weak and strong traits of character. The weak and the strong traits are different in every person. Character is composed of the specific traits we ourselves develop. Mike, there is no way one can become conscious of a sinful trait of character unless it is manifested in sinful thoughts and/or acts.
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Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ...
[Re: Mountain Man]
#136397
10/01/11 08:27 PM
10/01/11 08:27 PM
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The idea that having sinful flesh nature counts as sin and corruption is false. The "flesh" is the carnal nature. This is how the triad "the world, the flesh and the devil" is defined: Every Christian will be assailed by the allurements of the world, the clamors of the carnal nature, and the direct temptations of Satan. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, 102.) {Pr 179.2} The sinful propensities are in the carnal nature: The apostle [Paul] declares that he did not run in the Christian race uncertainly, that is, indifferently, willing to be left behind; neither did he fight as the pugilist practices prior to the fray, beating the air with empty blows, having no opponent. But as, when in actual conflict, he contends for the mastery, overcomes his antagonist by repeated and well-directed blows, beats him to the ground, and holds him there till he acknowledges himself conquered, so did the apostle fight against the temptations of Satan and the evil propensities of the carnal nature. {LP 167.2}
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Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ...
[Re: Rosangela]
#136409
10/02/11 03:41 PM
10/02/11 03:41 PM
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Mike, there is no way one can become conscious of a sinful trait of character unless it is manifested in sinful thoughts and/or acts. Human nature is sinful. Human tendencies (propensities, inclinations) are sinful. Human traits of character, however, are neutral. We use human traits to cultivate human character. While abiding in Jesus and partaking of the divine nature, we use human traits to cultivate sinless character. Otherwise, the opposite is true. We are conscious of the character we cultivate.
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Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ...
[Re: Rosangela]
#136410
10/02/11 03:55 PM
10/02/11 03:55 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
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The idea that having sinful flesh nature counts as sin and corruption is false. The "flesh" is the carnal nature. This is how the triad "the world, the flesh and the devil" is defined: Every Christian will be assailed by the allurements of the world, the clamors of the carnal nature, and the direct temptations of Satan. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, 102.) {Pr 179.2} The sinful propensities are in the carnal nature: The apostle [Paul] declares that he did not run in the Christian race uncertainly, that is, indifferently, willing to be left behind; neither did he fight as the pugilist practices prior to the fray, beating the air with empty blows, having no opponent. But as, when in actual conflict, he contends for the mastery, overcomes his antagonist by repeated and well-directed blows, beats him to the ground, and holds him there till he acknowledges himself conquered, so did the apostle fight against the temptations of Satan and the evil propensities of the carnal nature. {LP 167.2} Amen. The point is - the fact sinful flesh nature craves sinful expression and tempts us from within to indulge our innocent and legitimate needs in sinful ways is not a sin we must repent of, or a sin that contaminates character cultivated as a result of abiding in Jesus and partaking of the divine nature. Yes, the clamoring of our "internal foes" is sinful, but it is not a sin (in the sense we are guilty, or in the sense we must repent).
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Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ...
[Re: Mountain Man]
#136522
10/07/11 02:00 AM
10/07/11 02:00 AM
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Human traits of character, however, are neutral. ??? Teachers are to consider that they are not dealing with angels, but human beings with like passions as they themselves have. Characters are not formed in one mold. There is every phase of character received by children as an inheritance. The defects and the virtues in traits of character are thus revealed. Let every instructor take this into consideration. Hereditary and cultivated deformity of human character, as also beauty of character, will have to be met, and much grace cultivated in the instructor to know how to deal with the erring for their present and eternal good. (FE, 277, 278)
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