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Why arent Adventist stoning the Sabbath Breaker? #136224
09/24/11 10:40 AM
09/24/11 10:40 AM
Rick H  Offline
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So if scripture says to do it, why arent Adventist stoning the Sabbath breakers in their midts.Well lets start with the story of the Sabbath breaker.

Numbers 15:32-35
And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. 35And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.



This gives a excellent explanation on the issue.......
"...Sometimes while discussing the Sabbath commandment with individuals, the question comes up in regards to the death penalty which was enacted to the Sabbath. many seize on this and say why dont you stone the Sabbath breakers today. One critic gave the following - "You can't 'Have It Your Way' with the Sabbath. God specifies how it was to be kept... The penalty for doing any of these things during the Sabbath was DEATH (Numbers 15)." -The Sabbath & Sunday, by Pastor J. Mark Martin.

Lets dig a little deeper. Here is how the original commandment reads:

Exodus 20:8-11
(8) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
(9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
(10) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
(11) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Notice how originally the Sabbath commandment never included the death penalty. That part of the law did not come until after (in chapter 31) the law was spoken and written by God.

Keep in mind that by this time Israel had just finished experiencing the Exodus from Egypt, and it had just begun the process of learning how to become a "nation." Like every nation, civil laws are introduced in order to maintain a civil society. Most of these civil laws were divinely given by God... and that was because the nation was at first a theocracy, a nation with God as their king. Its no wonder then that they were introduced into God's law.

The law to kill the violator of the Sabbath was written as part of the civil laws of this growing nation. It was never part of the divine moral law, nor was it added along with it upon the tablets of stone. This fact makes a clear distinction between the Moral law and the Civil laws. One was written in stone, the other in the "book of the law."

Anciently when the nation of Israel fell (in 70 AD) so did it's law. They are no more valid, for they were civil laws that belonged to that nation. The eternal moral law of God, however, is to endure “for ever and ever” (Psalm 111:7-8). It was not merely part of the nation, it is a part God himself, for the law of Ten Commandments is his very character in written form.

Those who excuse themselves of keeping the Sabbath because of this civil law will find it difficult to deal with the 5th commandment... for it to was given a civil law:

Exodus 21:17
(17) “And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.”

We would all agree that this aspect of the law is done away with in Christ, because he paid the death penalty for us on that cross. He took upon himself that “curse” of the law, which is death. But, does Christ’s doing away with the death penalty eliminate our obligation to “honor your father and your mother?” Of course not. It is the same therefore with the 4th commandment, for according to James, all the commandments are equal, and not one is not to be treated differently from the other:

James 2:10-11
(10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
(11) For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law...."

Re: Why arent Adventist stoning the Sabbath Breaker? [Re: Rick H] #136238
09/24/11 09:16 PM
09/24/11 09:16 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Those who excuse themselves of keeping the Sabbath because of this civil law will find it difficult to deal with the 5th commandment... for it to was given a civil law:

Exodus 21:17
(17) “And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.”


They will also find it difficult to deal with the 3d commandment:
Leviticus 24:16 ‘And whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall certainly stone him, the stranger as well as him who is born in the land. When he blasphemes the name of the LORD, he shall be put to death.

And with the 6th commandment:
Numbers 35:30 Whoever kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the testimony of witnesses

And with the 7th:
Leviticus 20:10 The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

Re: Why arent Adventist stoning the Sabbath Breaker? [Re: Rosangela] #136239
09/24/11 09:24 PM
09/24/11 09:24 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
In our day there are many who reject the creation Sabbath as a Jewish institution and urge that if it is to be kept, the penalty of death must be inflicted for its violation; but we see that blasphemy received the same punishment as did Sabbathbreaking. Shall we therefore conclude that the third commandment also is to be set aside as applicable only to the Jews? Yet the argument drawn from the death penalty applies to the third, the fifth, and indeed to nearly all the ten precepts, equally with the fourth. Though God may not now punish the transgression of His law with temporal penalties, yet His word declares that the wages of sin is death; and in the final execution of the judgment it will be found that death is the portion of those who violate His sacred precepts. {PP 409.2}

Re: Why arent Adventist stoning the Sabbath Breaker? [Re: Rosangela] #136268
09/27/11 02:07 AM
09/27/11 02:07 AM
Kevin H  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 628
New York
This is an easy question. Same reason why the Holy Spirit is not currently striking down everyone who does not give the full offering that they say they are giving. In the early stages of growth God needs to come down strong sometimes, but then the memory is to help keep us in check, prick the conscience and hopefully repent.

Also, this man was showing contempt for the system saying that he was sick and tired of it and did not want to be a part of it anymore.

Re: Why arent Adventist stoning the Sabbath Breaker? [Re: Kevin H] #136279
09/27/11 03:32 PM
09/27/11 03:32 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Moses inquired of Jesus the right course of action to be taken in the case of the Sabbath-breaker. It was Jesus who commanded that he be stoned to death. The reason it doesn't nowadays is the fact Jesus doesn't command it.

Re: Why arent Adventist stoning the Sabbath Breaker? [Re: Mountain Man] #136282
09/27/11 03:46 PM
09/27/11 03:46 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Moses inquired of Jesus the right course of action to be taken in the case of the Sabbath-breaker. It was Jesus who commanded that he be stoned to death. The reason it doesn't nowadays is the fact Jesus doesn't command it.


What kind of logic is this?

A: Jesus commanded the observance of the Sabbath.
B: Jesus commanded the death penalty for breaking the Sabbath.
C: Observing the Sabbath is still binding today.
D: Stoning Sabbath breakers is NOT still binding today.

???????? dunno


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Why arent Adventist stoning the Sabbath Breaker? [Re: JAK] #136339
09/29/11 02:52 PM
09/29/11 02:52 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Jesus never left it up to the Jews to stone Sabbath-breakers. He reserved the right to make the final decision.

Re: Why arent Adventist stoning the Sabbath Breaker? [Re: Mountain Man] #136346
09/29/11 04:09 PM
09/29/11 04:09 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
MM, your rational is going from preposterous to absurd.

Methinks ye've been too long in the sun.

Last edited by JAK; 09/29/11 04:24 PM.

"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Why arent Adventist stoning the Sabbath Breaker? [Re: JAK] #136356
09/30/11 03:20 PM
09/30/11 03:20 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Too funny. Can you name a time the Jews stoned a Sabbath-breaker without Jesus' consent and command? I'm referring to Jesus in the OT.

Re: Why arent Adventist stoning the Sabbath Breaker? [Re: Mountain Man] #136445
10/04/11 05:13 PM
10/04/11 05:13 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
There is only one OT incident of the Jews stoning a Sabbath-breaker, which is found in Numbers 15:36.

However, this does not explain the "logic" of why, if Jesus commanded both actions, (keeping the Sabbath and stoning Sabbath-breakers) the one is still binding and the other is not. dunno


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
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