HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,600
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 14
kland 9
April
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
Member Spotlight
dedication
dedication
Canada
Posts: 6,431
Joined: April 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
6 registered members (Karen Y, dedication, ProdigalOne, Kevin H, Daryl, 1 invisible), 3,050 guests, and 20 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
New Reply
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: Lesson #4 (4th Quarter 2011): Justification by Faith Alone [Re: asygo] #137148
10/28/11 11:16 PM
10/28/11 11:16 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
How can the works of sinful beings be sinless?

When born-again believers abide in Jesus and partake of the divine nature they, like Jesus, are empowered by the Holy Spirit to "work the works of God". Their fruit is "perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." To say they are "sinful beings" rather than "saints" seems inarticulate.

Reply Quote
Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Re: Lesson #4 (4th Quarter 2011): Justification by Faith Alone [Re: asygo] #137149
10/28/11 11:36 PM
10/28/11 11:36 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
M: It is true, though, we can never "equal the pattern", however, we can and must, by the grace of God, imitate the character Jesus.

A: Yes, we imitate Jesus, but never equal the Pattern. Can the requirements of God's Law be fulfilled by anything less than Christ's perfect Pattern? He obeyed God completely, all the time. Will the law be satisfied by anything less than complete, constant obedience?

Yes, law and justice is perfectly satisfied with the fruit of born-again believers who are abiding in Jesus and partaking of the divine nature. "Holiness finds that it has nothing more to require." {COL 162.4} It doesn't matter that "all have sinned" or that "there is none righteous" because the blood and righteousness of Jesus atones for past sins. "Christ's character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned." {SC 62.2}

Reply Quote
Re: Lesson #4 (4th Quarter 2011): Justification by Faith Alone [Re: Mountain Man] #137164
10/29/11 04:57 PM
10/29/11 04:57 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Yes, law and justice is perfectly satisfied with the fruit of born-again believers

Then salvation is by faith + works - faith at justification and works for sanctification?
Besides, what you are saying is that after justification you can equal the Pattern, since your works are perfect.

Reply Quote
Re: Lesson #4 (4th Quarter 2011): Justification by Faith Alone [Re: Rosangela] #137165
10/29/11 06:46 PM
10/29/11 06:46 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
A couple of passages which deal with this:

Many feel that their faults of character make it impossible for them to meet the standard that Christ has erected, but all that such ones have to do is to humble themselves at every step under the mighty hand of God. Christ does not estimate the man by the amount of work he does, but by the spirit in which the work is performed. When He sees men lifting the burdens, trying to carry them in lowliness of mind, with distrust of self and with reliance upon Him, He adds to their work His perfection and sufficiency, and it is accepted of the Father. We are accepted in the Beloved. The sinner's defects are covered by the perfection and fullness of the Lord our Righteousness. Those who with sincere will, with contrite heart, are putting forth humble efforts to live up to the requirements of God, are looked upon by the Father with pitying, tender love; He regards such as obedient children, and the righteousness of Christ is imputed unto them. {HP 23.4, 5}

Before the believer is held out the wonderful possibility of being like Christ, obedient to all the principles of the law. But of himself man is utterly unable to reach this condition. The holiness that God's word declares he must have before he can be saved is the result of the working of divine grace as he bows in submission to the discipline and restraining influences of the Spirit of truth. Man's obedience can be made perfect only by the incense of Christ's righteousness, which fills with divine fragrance every act of obedience. The part of the Christian is to persevere in overcoming every fault. Constantly he is to pray to the Saviour to heal the disorders of his sin-sick soul. He has not the wisdom or the strength to overcome; these belong to the Lord, and He bestows them on those who in humiliation and contrition seek Him for help. {AA 532.1}

Reply Quote
Re: Lesson #4 (4th Quarter 2011): Justification by Faith Alone [Re: Rosangela] #137178
10/30/11 04:09 PM
10/30/11 04:09 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Rosangela, I agree with the quotes you posted. Please note she never refers to the righteousness of saints as sinful. The fact Jesus sweetens it with His fragrance is not the same thing as saying it is sinful. The difference has to do with maturation - not sinfulness.

Quote:
We do not earn salvation by our obedience; for salvation is the free gift of God, to be received by faith. But obedience is the fruit of faith. "Ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him." 1 John 3:5, 6. Here is the true test. If we abide in Christ, if the love of God dwells in us, our feelings, our thoughts, our purposes, our actions, will be in harmony with the will of God as expressed in the precepts of His holy law. "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous." 1 John 3:7. Righteousness is defined by the standard of God's holy law, as expressed in the ten precepts given on Sinai. {SC 61.1}

"If we abide in Christ, if the love of God dwells in us, our feelings, our thoughts, our purposes, our actions, will be in harmony with the will of God as expressed in the precepts of His holy law." You seem to be saying, No, they will not be in harmony.

Reply Quote
Re: Lesson #4 (4th Quarter 2011): Justification by Faith Alone [Re: Mountain Man] #137200
10/31/11 10:27 PM
10/31/11 10:27 PM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
"He adds to their work His perfection and sufficiency"
"The sinner's defects are covered by the perfection and fullness of the Lord our Righteousness"
"our feelings, our thoughts, our purposes, our actions, will be in harmony with the will of God"


Yes, in harmony, but apparently, still needing Christ's imputed righteousness, still falling short.

Quote:
But he who is truly seeking for holiness of heart and life delights in the law of God, and mourns only that he falls so far short of meeting its requirements. {SL 81.1}


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Reply Quote
Re: Lesson #4 (4th Quarter 2011): Justification by Faith Alone [Re: asygo] #137209
11/01/11 04:18 PM
11/01/11 04:18 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
I am not disputing the necessity of Jesus' fragrance. However, please note "falls so far short" (from the quote you posted) isn't the same as saying their Spirit-powered obedience and righteousness is sinful. Paul wrote, "For the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." 1 Cor 3:17. And Peter wrote, "As he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy." 1 Peter 1:15-16.

Reply Quote
Re: Lesson #4 (4th Quarter 2011): Justification by Faith Alone [Re: Mountain Man] #137229
11/02/11 12:51 AM
11/02/11 12:51 AM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Isn't falling short of meeting the requirements of God's law the very definition of sin?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Reply Quote
Re: Lesson #4 (4th Quarter 2011): Justification by Faith Alone [Re: asygo] #137238
11/02/11 04:04 PM
11/02/11 04:04 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
I don't see how her statement ("falls so far short") can mean they fall short in the sense their Spirit-powered righteousness is a sin. Must born-again believers repent of the righteousness they experience while abiding in Jesus and partaking of the divine nature?

Reply Quote
Re: Lesson #4 (4th Quarter 2011): Justification by Faith Alone [Re: Mountain Man] #137240
11/02/11 04:20 PM
11/02/11 04:20 PM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
She's pretty clear that these people are seeking for holiness and delight in God's law. Yet, they fall short. There's really not a lot of wiggle room there.

Is repentance needed? Well, do we need to repent for falling short of meeting the law's requirements? Yes.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Reply Quote
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Quick Reply

Options
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
CAPTCHA Verification



Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 04/28/24 11:09 AM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Rick H. 04/26/24 06:05 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: The Sunday Law
by dedication. 04/22/24 05:15 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: Part Two
by TruthinTypes. 04/21/24 11:14 PM
Where is the crises with Climate mandates?
by dedication. 04/21/24 09:25 PM
2nd Quarter 2024 The Great Controversy
by dedication. 04/21/24 06:41 PM
Iran strikes Israel as War Expands
by dedication. 04/21/24 05:07 PM
What Happens at the End.
by Rick H. 04/20/24 11:39 AM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 04/18/24 05:51 PM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:24 PM
Chinese Revival?
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 06:12 PM
Carbon Dioxide What's so Bad about It?
by Daryl. 04/05/24 12:04 PM
Destruction of Canadian culture
by ProdigalOne. 04/05/24 07:46 AM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by dedication. 04/28/24 09:29 AM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by dedication. 04/22/24 06:04 PM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:19 AM
A Second American Civil War?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:39 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:34 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 07:10 PM
Are we seeing a outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
by dedication. 04/01/24 07:48 PM
Time Is Short!
by ProdigalOne. 03/29/24 10:50 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1