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Re: Are the seven thunders of Rev 10 unsealed? [Re: glenm] #134759
06/26/11 09:52 AM
06/26/11 09:52 AM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Correction on my last post - I meant thunders not trumpets.
Quote:
If one fulfillment is a shadow of a larger fulfillment yet to come, then we might be mislead if we focus primarily on the shadow.

Yes, the shaddow or initial fulfillment may be substantially different from the primary/end-time application. I used to think of the initial fulfillment as a kind of template for the final; but if the initial is symbolic and the final is literal, the two are necessarily going to be substantially different. But studying the initial fulfillment is still very helpful.

Re: Are the seven thunders of Rev 10 unsealed? [Re: Charity] #137938
12/06/11 06:59 PM
12/06/11 06:59 PM
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I've been looking into this more - whether the thunders are sealed. How about this: Some have suggested they were sealed during the Millerite movement. God placed his hand over part of the prophecies so that Adventists did not understand certain parts, but after the disappointment His hand has been removed. What do the rest of you think? Now that God's hand is removed can we understand the thunders.

Re: Are the seven thunders of Rev 10 unsealed? [Re: Charity] #137939
12/06/11 07:07 PM
12/06/11 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
Here's another statement indicating that the seven seals that lock the contents of the scroll of Rev 5 are not unsealed yet. If the scroll is not unrolled can the seven thunders be unsealed?:
Quote:
The mark of the beast is exactly what it has been proclaimed to be. Not all in regard to this matter is yet understood, and will not be understood until the unrolling of the scroll; . . . . I have been instructed that the prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation should be printed in small books, with the necessary explanations, and should be sent all over the world. Our own people need to have the light placed before them in clearer lines. {8T 159.3}

I tend to think the seals and thunders work along similar lines and may cover the same issues. We won't understand the seals fully until they are unlocked and the same applies to the thunders but probably to a greater extent. With the seals we have quite a bit of description, with the thunders we have nothing at all. If we knew it all, we'd be deprived of a faith experience.

Re: Are the seven thunders of Rev 10 unsealed? [Re: Charity] #138183
12/17/11 10:16 AM
12/17/11 10:16 AM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick

I tend to think the seals and thunders work along similar lines and may cover the same issues. We won't understand the seals fully until they are unlocked and the same applies to the thunders but probably to a greater extent. With the seals we have quite a bit of description, with the thunders we have nothing at all.

I think I may be wrong in the above bolded statement. The little book that's open in the hand of the angel may contain the thunders. Adventists generally agree the little book is composed of Daniel 7-12.

Re: Are the seven thunders of Rev 10 unsealed? [Re: Charity] #138197
12/17/11 05:48 PM
12/17/11 05:48 PM
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Mark, it seems fairly clear Ellen was shown the "little book" and the "seven thunders" are synonymous and was fulfilled during the first and second angels' messages between 1842 and 1844.

Re: Are the seven thunders of Rev 10 unsealed? [Re: Mountain Man] #138215
12/18/11 01:24 PM
12/18/11 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Mark, it seems fairly clear Ellen was shown the "little book" and the "seven thunders" are synonymous and was fulfilled during the first and second angels' messages between 1842 and 1844.


In the statement below, she equates the little book to the sealed portion of Daniel's prophecies:
Quote:
The book that was sealed was not the book of Revelation, but that portion of the prophecy of Daniel which related to the last days. The Scripture says, "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased" (Dan. 12:4). When the book was opened, the proclamation was made, "Time shall be no longer." (See Revelation 10:6.) The book of Daniel is now unsealed, and the revelation made by Christ to John is to come to all the inhabitants of the earth. By the increase of knowledge a people is to be prepared to stand in the latter days. {2SM 105.1}

Re: Are the seven thunders of Rev 10 unsealed? [Re: Charity] #138222
12/18/11 05:52 PM
12/18/11 05:52 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Isn't she referring to the whole of the Revelation and not just the "little book"? Here's the larger context of your quote:

Quote:
The first and second messages were given in 1843 and 1844, and we are now under the proclamation of the third; but all three of the messages are still to be proclaimed. It is just as essential now as ever before that they shall be repeated to those who are seeking for the truth. By pen and voice we are to sound the proclamation, showing their order, and the application of the prophecies that bring us to the third angel's message. There cannot be a third without the first and second. These messages we are to give to the world in publications, in discourses, showing in the line of prophetic history the things that have been and the things that will be. {2SM 104.3}

The book that was sealed was not the book of Revelation, but that portion of the prophecy of Daniel which related to the last days. The Scripture says, "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased" (Daniel 12:4). When the book was opened, the proclamation was made, "Time shall be no longer." (See Revelation 10:6.) The book of Daniel is now unsealed, and the revelation made by Christ to John is to come to all the inhabitants of the earth. By the increase of knowledge a people is to be prepared to stand in the latter days. {2SM 105.1}

In this statement and the following one she makes her point pretty clear:

Quote:
The mighty angel who instructed John was no less a personage than Jesus Christ. Setting His right foot on the sea, and His left upon the dry land, shows the part which He is acting in the closing scenes of the great controversy with Satan. This position denotes His supreme power and authority over the whole earth. The controversy has waxed stronger and more determined from age to age, and will continue to do so, to the concluding scenes when the masterly working of the powers of darkness shall reach their height. Satan, united with evil men, will deceive the whole world and the churches who receive not the love of the truth. But the mighty angel demands attention. He cries with a loud voice. He is to show the power and authority of His voice to those who have united with Satan to oppose the truth. After these seven thunders uttered their voices, the injunction comes to John as to Daniel in regard to the little book: "Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered" (Revelation 10:4). These relate to future events which will be disclosed in their order. Daniel shall stand in his lot at the end of the days. John sees the little book unsealed. Then Daniel's prophecies have their proper place in the first, second, and third angels' messages to be given to the world. The unsealing of the little book was the message in relation to time. {1MR 99.2}

The books of Daniel and the Revelation are one. One is a prophecy, the other a revelation; one a book sealed, the other a book opened. John heard the mysteries which the thunders uttered, but he was commanded not to write them. The special light given to John which was expressed in the seven thunders was a delineation of events which would transpire under the first and second angels' messages. It was not best for the people to know these things, for their faith must necessarily be tested. In the order of God, most wonderful and advanced truths would be proclaimed. The first and second angels' messages were to be proclaimed, but no further light was to be revealed before these messages had done their specific work. This is represented by the angel standing with one foot on the sea, proclaiming with a most solemn oath that time should be no longer. {1MR 99.3}

This time which the angel declares with a solemn oath, is not the end of this world's history, neither of probationary time, but of prophetic time, which should precede the advent of our Lord. That is, the people will not have another message upon definite time. After this period of time, reaching from 1842 to 1844, there can be no definite tracing of the prophetic time. The longest reckoning reaches to the autumn of 1844. The angel's position with one foot on the sea, the other on the land signifies the wide extent of the proclamation of the message. It will cross the broad waters and be proclaimed in other countries, even to all the world. The comprehension of truth, the glad reception of the message is represented in the eating of the little book. The truth in regard to the time of the advent of our Lord was a precious message to our souls. Ms 59, 1900, pp. 8, 9. ("Jots and Tittles, II," August 16, 1900.)

White Estate Washington, D. C. May 4, 1950 {1MR 100.1}

The seven thunders pertained particularly to events that transpired during the Millerite proclamation of the first and second angels' messages between 1842 and 1844. And, yes, obviously these messages were based primarily on the prophecies of Daniel, especially the time prophecies.

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