Debbiebrought up on another topic the Catholic concept of "Original Sin", babies and infant baptism.

What are your opinions on all of this?

[ July 30, 2005, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: Phil N. D'blanc ]

I think we are born with a nature which apart from God's grace is unable to do anything but sin. We have a self which must be denied. I believe Christ took our sinful nature upon His own sinless nature, denied Himself, and has made it possible for us to overcome sin in the flesh. We do this by faith in Christ.

Wow, Tom That's a record-breaking shorty statement, for you!

However, others are concerned whether sin is a thing that is contracted at birth or a merely a history started at birth.
Which sin are we talking about, the sinful nature or the deeds of sin?
Are babies born with a blank slate?
When do they start sinning?
How culpable is a three year old?
What constitutes child salvation?

A simmilar question would be, do animals sin? Isn't commiting the act of sin having knolidge of doing wrong?

Good question; I know that I have seen animals look "guilty" when doing something they have been taught would draw the wrath of humans.

But, more to the point: do we inherit a nature geared to sinning, or is it a clean slate at birth and we learn to sin?

We are born sinners.

quote:

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Psalms 51:5
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

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God Bless,
Will

I'm working at my brevity Phil, but I don't think I can match Will.

We aren't born sinners, but we are born with sinful natures, which, apart from God's grace, can do nothing but sin. This was the state in which Christ was born, but He overcame, not by His own sinlessness, but by faith. How He was able to remain sinless as a young child, the Spirit of Prophesy tells us is a mystery which God has not revealed to us.

Sin in its essence is selfishness. Selfishness is death. Whether one is aware of one's selfishness or not, it still leads to death. God heals us of selfishness by revealing His own self-sacrificing love. When we embrace that truth, as revealed in Christ (i.e., we believe in Christ), we are healed; a new life begins in our soul.

Regarding babies and 3 yr olds, I think the issue is not one of culpability but of healing potential. If God can heal an infant, or young child, then He will and such a one will be in the hereafter. It's hard to imagine an infant or 3 yr. old being resurrected in the judgment of the wicked. What would there be to reveal to such a one? Perhaps there might be a 3 yr. old precocious and prodigious enough to be so resurrected, but that would surely be a very rare thing.

Phil asked,

quote:

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do we inherit a nature geared to sinning, or is it a clean slate at birth and we learn to sin?

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- we do inherit a nature at birth that is geared toward sinning.

- we're born with a clean slate as regards guilt.

- we do learn to sin; sin is the result of choice.

Tom E. said,

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Sin in its essence is selfishness.

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Not quite, though the truth is close by -- "sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4. According to Ellen White, that's the only definition of sin we've been given by God. Selfishness causes us to commit sin, true; but sin itself is not selfishness. Sin is the breaking of God's commandments.

We're not born sinners. We're born under the probation afforded by the fact that Christ stepped in immediately upon Adam's first sin, and offered to take our death penalty. We become sinners when we transgress the law of God; when we choose to disobey.

Well, Either way, we will sin. Does it really matter how it starts?

Old Tom: Sin in its essence is selfishness.

John: Not quite, though the truth is close by -- "sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4. According to Ellen White, that's the only definition of sin we've been given by God. Selfishness causes us to commit sin, true; but sin itself is not selfishness. Sin is the breaking of God's commandments.

Tom: Love is the fulfilling of the law. The essence of love is to put the interests of another ahead of your own. Selfishness is the opposite of that, so it is contratry to the law. So the essence of sin is selfishness.