Please explain these verses, John Howard:

"Selfishness is sin, and it grieves away the Spirit of Christ. When we cherish unkind thoughts, and harbor suspicions against our brethren, we are cutting ourselves off from the channel of God's light and love. Jealousy is as cruel as the grave, and should never be cherished in the heart, much less expressed in the actions. How cruel it is to cherish evil surmising against those who are members of Christ's body! Accusation, condemnation, and revenge are all of Satanic origin, and evil thoughts of others should be at once rejected from the mind, for these things repulse, and separate the hearts of brethren. Satan rejoices when he can create division in the church of God; for weakness follows, and the things that remain are ready to die. {ST, April 13, 1891 par. 3}

"All sin is selfishness. Satan's first sin was a manifestation of selfishness. He sought to grasp power, to exalt self. A species of insanity led him to seek to supersede God. And the temptation that led Adam to sin was Satan's declaration that it was possible for man to attain to something more than he already enjoyed, possible for him to be as God Himself. The sowing of seeds of selfishness in the human heart was the first result of the entrance of sin into the world. God desires every one to understand the evil of selfishness, and to co operate with Him in guarding the human family against its terrible, deceptive powers. The design of the gospel is to confront this evil by means of remedial missionary work, and to destroy its destructive power by establishing enterprises of benevolence." {WB, September 9, 1902 par. 3}

A study of prenatal influences suggests that babies start developing character in the womb. Character is the result of choices. "All have sinned", therefore all need a Saviour. Wouldn't that include babies in the womb?

What fetus sins were you thinking of, MM? Using God's name in vain? Not remembering the Sabbath day? Covetousness?

Many whom God would use as His instruments have been disqualified at their birth by the previous wrong habits of their parents. When the Lord would raise up Samson as a deliverer of His people, He enjoined upon the mother correct habits of life before the birth of her child. . . . {2BC 1005.7}

In instructing this one mother, the Lord gave a lesson to all who should be mothers to the close of time. Had the wife of Manoah followed the prevailing customs, her system would have been weakened by violation of nature's laws, and her child would have suffered with her the penalty of transgression (GH Feb., 1880). {2BC 1005.8}

Even before the birth of the child, the preparation should begin that will enable it to fight successfully the battle against evil. {MH 371.3}

The effect of prenatal influences is by many parents looked upon as a matter of little moment; but heaven does not so regard it. The message sent by an angel of God, and twice given in the most solemn manner, shows it to be deserving of our most careful thought. {MH 372.3}

None of the quotes you mentioned said anything about fetus sins. I was responding to comments that the fetuses die because they sinned (at least, that looked to me to be the implication).

Phil,

quote:

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Please explain these verses, John Howard:

Selfishness is sin, and it grieves away the Spirit of Christ....

All sin is selfishness....

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I'll have to concede the point then! If she used "selfishness" in such a way, I'll have to as well. Thanks for bringing those out, I stand corrected.

If children are concieved and born sinless (I'm not suggesting they are) - then, do they need a Saviour? At what point do humans require a Saviour? Does the word "all" in the text "all have sinned" exclude children before the age of accountability?

We are definitely all born sinners. Regardless if you are a baby or not.
God weighs this out and doesnt say "well this one was going to be a common thief, so lets put him in the second resurrection". A baby is innocent yes, and thats where that ends.
The Bible is clear we are not only born sinners, and shaped in iniquity, but even at conception we are sinners.
God Bless,
Will

John -- That selfishness is sin can be seen directly from Scripture, as I showed. One doesn't need an affirmation of Scripture from the Spirit of Prophesy to establish truth.

MM wrote: "If children are concieved and born sinless (I'm not suggesting they are) - then, do they need a Saviour? At what point do humans require a Saviour? Does the word "all" in the text "all have sinned" exclude children before the age of accountability?"

Earlier you wrote that all sinned, and that that included babies in the womb. I've asked what these fetus sins would be a couple of times, but haven't received an answer.

When Adam sinned, the entire human race was condemned. Christ is the Savior of the world. (John 4:42; 1 John 4:14). He gave His life for the life of the world. (John 6:48-51). To the death of Christ, we owe even this earthly life. Never one, saint or sinner, partakes of His daily food but he is nourished by the body and blood of Christ (DA 660).

We only exist physically because of Christ's sacrifice for us. So no human being can even exist physically but for Christ's sacrifice. Hence Christ is the Saviour of the human race, and all who are members of it are indebted to Him.

Where does the Bible say we are born sinners? Are you thinking of Ps. 51? That doesn't say that, of course, but no verse does. But that's the only one that comes to mind that could be readily misinterpreted that way.

We are born with sinful natures, but that doesn't make us sinners. A sinner is one who sins. If one were conceived sinning, that would imply those in the fetus are sinning, but what sins does a fetus commit? This is the same question I asked of Mike. Sabbath-breaking? Covetousness? Adultery? Bearing false witness?