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Mark of the Beast related to the 1st Beast or 2nd Beast of Rev 13 and WHO is the 2nd Beast?
#144164
07/14/12 05:42 PM
07/14/12 05:42 PM
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OP
Active Member 2019 Died February 12, 2019
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The need to revisit these questions seems to come up in A New Global Economic Restructure in 2012 discussion here. I will only quote this portion with Kland. Elle : We, SDAs has been taught that the Mark of the Beast is the Sunday Law. You know that cannot be proven Biblically and therefore it is a speculation. Since the Mark of the Beast is related to the Second Beast of Rev 13, we first need to properly identify who it is by looking at history and reconciliating it with scripture. Kland: And not to forget that it's related to the first Beast. Did you show that with your suggestion? Elle: Do you agree the mark is related to the second Beast? You need to be more specific in what you mean in saying that the Second Beast is related to the first. If you mean that the second Beast is the same entity(RC) as the first, then I disagree. Let me summarize what I have writen in that other post : Kland: Since you were relating the mark, I was too. And not to forget that it's ( the mark) related to the first Beast. Did you show that with your suggestion? (regarding the first beast) Elle : ??? What I read from Rev 13:11-18 the mark of the beast is related to the second beast. Plus history shows it as explained to some dept in this thread Post #144042 here. Show me your biblical & historical support that it is related to the first beast. A: If you agree that the Mark of the Beast is related[primarily] with the 1st Beast, then I would like to see Biblical & historical support. B. Who do you think the the 2nd Beast of Rev 13 is with all that is unfolding today and how does it related to the 1st Beast?
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Re: Mark of the Beast related to the 1st Beast or 2nd Beast of Rev 13 and WHO is the 2nd Beast?
[Re: Elle]
#144166
07/14/12 10:03 PM
07/14/12 10:03 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
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The 'mark' of the beast goes back to Cain who slew his brother Abel, and received the mark. The Mark is placed on those who would kill to have their religious offerings accepted without God's will.
When the Sunday law is decreed these men receive the mark because they are willing to kill for their beliefs to be enforced.
Genesis 1:14 'And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years'.
The mark is established over an erroneously enforced day of worship. Something made sacred in the minds of men without God's will.
More specifically to your question Elle.
Rev 13; 1-12 covers the 1260 years, from 538AD till the 'deadly wound' is inflicted to the head of the beast in 1798AD.
Then Rev 13 goes on in verse 13 as America the Lamb-like beast comes onto the stage, then sets up a law to enforce the religion of the papacy after the papal resurrection of 1929, but more specifically after Satan appears as an angel of light in the form of a resurrected pope (The False Prophet, eighth king of Rev 17) who will be telling the world that God told him to come tell everyone that Sunday is the true day of worship. This is soon to happen after this pope (the seventh head/king of Rev 17) dies.
When Satan appears as this angel (Messenger) of light, the image to the beast, set up by American Protestants changing the political structure of America, the Lamb like beast, to suit the first beast, is the one who enforces the mark of the first beast of Rev 13. That mark has been a part of the fallen papal institution from the beginning of their church, which is how Babylon the Mother of Harlots fell to begin with in the dark ages.
The first beast of Rev 13 lasts 1260 years then receives the head wound, is resurrected as the beast of Rev 17. The beast of Rev 17 is the continuation of the first beast of Rev 13, till the end .It is during this phase of the Roman beast that Satan the son of perdition is revealed and the 'Mark' is enforced by the image to the beast, erected by the Protestants of America, who lend their strength to the first beast for about one hour, or two literal weeks.
The mark has been around since the fall of man, but has a peculiar strength within the fallen church during the 1,260 years and is finally brought to full strength when the protestant churches fight for the false sacred day.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Mark of the Beast related to the 1st Beast or 2nd Beast of Rev 13 and WHO is the 2nd Beast?
[Re: Elle]
#144167
07/14/12 10:45 PM
07/14/12 10:45 PM
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Elle : We, SDAs have been taught that the Mark of the Beast is the Sunday Law. You know that cannot be proven Biblically and therefore it is a speculation. Since the Mark of the Beast is related to the Second Beast of Rev 13, we first need to properly identify who it is by looking at history and reconciliating it with scripture. The mark (or sign of allegiance to) the beast is SUNDAY. Our sign of alliance to the Creator is the Sabbath. Deut. 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Ez. 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them. 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.
The last day issue will be over God's commandments as we see from Rev. 12:17 and 14:12 The devils war is against them that keep God's commandments, and God's saints are identified by their keeping of God's commandments. Only those who are truly in relationship with Jesus can keep His commandments, all others may give an outward performance, but that will quickly disappear once the pressure is on. Which commandment is the most trodden underfoot, not only by non-believers but also by Christians? The one not only disobeyed but also has Christians filling books and webpages to refute? While all God's commandments are under attack, there is only one that receives the denunciation of almost the whole Christian world. Finally we hear the messages of the angels in Rev. 14. How is the TRUE WORSHIP defined? (Rev. 13 outlined false worship) True worship is defined with a call to worship the Creator God. The language is VERY similar to the language of the fourth commandment. The SIGNS show who we look to as the "Savior and lawgiver". The signs have no saving power in themselves -- it's about who has our allegiance. By accepting the authority of the "mother" church as being above God's law, thus a law unto itself, we move our allegiance from God to the usurper.
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Re: Mark of the Beast related to the 1st Beast or 2nd Beast of Rev 13 and WHO is the 2nd Beast?
[Re: Elle]
#144168
07/14/12 11:01 PM
07/14/12 11:01 PM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Posts: 6,441
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Show me your biblical & historical support that it is related to the first beast. [/quote] A: If you agree that the Mark of the Beast is related[primarily] with the 1st Beast, then I would like to see Biblical & historical support.
B. Who do you think the the 2nd Beast of Rev 13 is with all that is unfolding today and how does it related to the 1st Beast? The second beast of Revelation 13 is the United States. It is the power that gives the first beast it's greatest boost back into primacy. The first beast is European based. By it's feet, body and mouth we realize it is the continuation of the great empires that dominated Europe. It is a continuation of Daniel 7 depicting the progression there in its final "horn" stage. The papacy gained it's "beast" powers when an army was given it, and took upon itself the role of "punishing heretics" by FORCE. The main country that gave the armed power to the papacy after the downfall of the western empire, was France. It was also France that removed the "beast power" from the papacy in 1798. The deadly wound was then inflicted. The country that will be the main power to boost the papacy back into "beastly" position is America. Protestant America's link with the papacy is SUNDAY worship and this will be their big sign of in their attempt to bring the nations back to God. The big problem -- Sunday is not the day God sanctified and blessed and asked people to remember. Sunday is the "child" of the church that turned against the so called "Jewish" Sabbath.
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Re: Mark of the Beast related to the 1st Beast or 2nd Beast of Rev 13 and WHO is the 2nd Beast?
[Re: dedication]
#144169
07/14/12 11:05 PM
07/14/12 11:05 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
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The mark (or sign of allegiance to) the beast is SUNDAY.
Our sign of alliance to the Creator is the Sabbath.
Deut. 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Ez. 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them. 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.
The last day issue will be over God's commandments as we see from Rev. 12:17 and 14:12 The devils war is against them that keep God's commandments, and God's saints are identified by their keeping of God's commandments.
Only those who are truly in relationship with Jesus can keep His commandments, all others may give an outward performance, but that will quickly disappear once the pressure is on.
Which commandment is the most trodden underfoot, not only by non-believers but also by Christians? The one not only disobeyed but also has Christians filling books and webpages to refute? While all God's commandments are under attack, there is only one that receives the denunciation of almost the whole Christian world.
Finally we hear the messages of the angels in Rev. 14.
How is the TRUE WORSHIP defined? (Rev. 13 outlined false worship) True worship is defined with a call to worship the Creator God. The language is VERY similar to the language of the fourth commandment.
The SIGNS show who we look to as the "Savior and lawgiver". The signs have no saving power in themselves -- it's about who has our allegiance.
By accepting the authority of the "mother" church as being above God's law, thus a law unto itself, we move our allegiance from God to the usurper.
Correct, but you are looking just at the fallen church here. Within the Sabbath keeping church there are those who sigh and cry for the abominations done in His sanctuary also. In other words, not all who say they 'keep the Sabbath' will be saved either. Many will fall away because they do not have a love of the truth. They are the foolish ones. These will be those who receive the Mark in their hand. They sign eternal life away to not be persecuted by Cain.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Mark of the Beast related to the 1st Beast or 2nd Beast of Rev 13 and WHO is the 2nd Beast?
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#144170
07/15/12 02:25 AM
07/15/12 02:25 AM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
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Hebrews 11:4(ESV)
By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks.
Luke 11:51(ESV) from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation.
The Jews who persecuted Jesus were synonymous with the nominal Adventists of this day.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Mark of the Beast related to the 1st Beast or 2nd Beast of Rev 13 and WHO is the 2nd Beast?
[Re: Elle]
#144182
07/17/12 02:12 PM
07/17/12 02:12 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,429
Midland
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The need to revisit these questions seems to come up in A New Global Economic Restructure in 2012 discussion here. I will only quote this portion with Kland. Elle : We, SDAs has been taught that the Mark of the Beast is the Sunday Law. You know that cannot be proven Biblically and therefore it is a speculation. Since the Mark of the Beast is related to the Second Beast of Rev 13, we first need to properly identify who it is by looking at history and reconciliating it with scripture. Kland: And not to forget that it's related to the first Beast. Did you show that with your suggestion? Elle: Do you agree the mark is related to the second Beast? You need to be more specific in what you mean in saying that the Second Beast is related to the first. If you mean that the second Beast is the same entity(RC) as the first, then I disagree. Let me summarize what I have writen in that other post : Kland: Since you were relating the mark, I was too. And not to forget that it's ( the mark) related to the first Beast. Did you show that with your suggestion? (regarding the first beast) Elle : ??? What I read from Rev 13:11-18 the mark of the beast is related to the second beast. Plus history shows it as explained to some dept in this thread Post #144042 here. Show me your biblical & historical support that it is related to the first beast. A: If you agree that the Mark of the Beast is related[primarily] with the 1st Beast, then I would like to see Biblical & historical support. B. Who do you think the the 2nd Beast of Rev 13 is with all that is unfolding today and how does it related to the 1st Beast? I'm not so sure that history has explained it to some depth in this thread. Re 13:11 And I saw another beast Re 13:12 And he exerciseth all the authority of the first beast "he"= 2nd beast. Re 13:13 And he doeth great signs, Re 13:14 And he deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by reason of the signs which it was given him to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast who hath the stroke of the sword and lived. "he"= 2nd Re 13:16 And he causeth all, In the link, you said "he" = 2nd, right? Re 13:17 and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, even the name of the beast or the number of his name. Which beast? Which beast has it been talking about the 2nd making an image to which "beast who hath the stroke of the sword and lived"? Sounds like the mark is related to the first to me.
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Re: Mark of the Beast related to the 1st Beast or 2nd Beast of Rev 13 and WHO is the 2nd Beast?
[Re: kland]
#144214
07/22/12 02:12 AM
07/22/12 02:12 AM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Posts: 3,613
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Overview of Rev 13 for those interested.
Verses 1-10 are the 1,260 years of the Papal Roman empire until the head wound in 1798.
verses 11-13 is the rise of Protestant America until it speaks like the dragon who empowered the beast before it, the Papal Roman empire. This 2nd beast exercises all the power of the previous beast who was motivated by the dragon, Satan.
Verses 14-17 then America begins to force all to worship the first beast Rome, through forming an image to the first beast which is the false Sabbath.
But what is very interesting are these verses.
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. (The sword, or word of God must be fulfilled and it is prophesied "He who leadeth into captivity shall be led into captivity" so at the end of the prophetic 1260 years the sword did it's thing)
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
There is a false resurrection coming.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Mark of the Beast related to the 1st Beast or 2nd Beast of Rev 13 and WHO is the 2nd Beast?
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#144225
07/23/12 02:19 PM
07/23/12 02:19 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
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Midland
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There is a false resurrection coming. Depends upon what the image is. Which depends upon what the beast is.
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Re: Mark of the Beast related to the 1st Beast or 2nd Beast of Rev 13 and WHO is the 2nd Beast?
[Re: kland]
#144227
07/24/12 01:01 AM
07/24/12 01:01 AM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
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The prophecy of Revelation 13 declares that the power represented by the beast with lamblike horns shall cause “the earth and them which dwell therein” to worship the papacy—there symbolized by the beast “like unto a leopard.” The beast with two horns is also to say “to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast;” and, furthermore, it is to command all, “both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond,” to receive the mark of the beast. Revelation 13:11-16. It has been shown that the United States is the power represented by the beast with lamblike horns, and that this prophecy will be fulfilled when the United States shall enforce Sunday observance, which Rome claims as the special acknowledgment of her supremacy. But in this homage to the papacy the United States will not be alone. The influence of Rome in the countries that once acknowledged her dominion is still far from being destroyed. And prophecy foretells a restoration of her power. “I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.” Verse 3. The infliction of the deadly wound points to the downfall of the papacy in 1798. After this, says the prophet, “his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.” Paul states plainly that the “man of sin” will continue until the second advent. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8. To the very close of time he will carry forward the work of deception. And the revelator declares, also referring to the papacy: “All that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life.” Revelation 13:8. In both the Old and the New World, the papacy will receive homage in the honor paid to the Sunday institution, that rests solely upon the authority of the Roman Church. {DD 27.1} Since the middle of the nineteenth century, students of prophecy in the United States have presented this testimony to the world. In the events now taking place is seen a rapid advance toward the fulfillment of the prediction. With Protestant teachers there is the same claim of divine authority for Sundaykeeping, and the same lack of Scriptural evidence, as with the papal leaders who fabricated miracles to supply the place of a command from God. The assertion that God’s judgments are visited upon men for their violation of the Sunday-Sabbath, will be repeated; already it is beginning to be urged. And a movement to enforce Sunday observance is fast gaining ground. {DD 27.2}
Do you still not know what the image is?
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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