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What is the wine of the wrath of her fornication? #144580
08/14/12 04:04 PM
08/14/12 04:04 PM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,118
Florida, USA
Revelation 14
King James Version (KJV)
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

was doing some work on the Greeks and how they pick up and passed on to the Romans the ancient Babylonian sun gods and system of worship, when I came across a interesting sermon that really hit the issue dead center.

'...Pope is a shortened title for Pontifex Maximus. In Greek it means father. The Pontifex Maximus (meaning king of sacrifices or servant to the triads, as well as the "greatest bridge-maker between the gods and men") was the high priest of the College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) in ancient Rome. It's a pagan title that was incorporated from the Etruscan-Latin polytheistic culture (700 BC) who lived before the Romans. These early people (just like the Romans) had built great temples to the gods and goddess of the day. They also had a pagan triad. Eventually the Etruscans were conquered by Rome.

The title Pontifex Maximus (Pope) is mentioned numerous times by the early Catholic Church fathers (especially by Tertullian), but it was not applied to a Catholic bishop until much later on. The early Catholics said that the Pontifex Maximus was the "King of Heathendom," the evil high priest of the pagan mystery religion of Rome. This post was the most important position in the ancient Roman religion. A distinctly religious office under the early Roman Republic, it gradually became politicized until, beginning with Augustus, it was subsumed into the Imperial office. It's last use with reference to the emperors is in inscriptions of Gratian (reigned 375-383). He was then urged by the Catholic bishops to renounce the cultic Roman title, and instead grant it to their exalted leading bishop over Rome.

Pontifex Maximus is a name that's being used by the Roman Catholic Church clergy today. Though it may be abbreviated into Pope or Papa, yet it's clearly a title incorporated directly from paganism. Interesting to note that the all the pagan pontiffs or popes held that office for life. Exactly like the Catholics Popes. And their cult members met and elected a successor, who after his election became the next Pope or Pontifex Maximus (Dionys. II.22, 73). Just like the election held by the Catholic Church cardinals to choose a new Pope. The Pontifex Maximus was the guardian of the Vestal virgins. The Roman Catholic Church has simply named them Nuns instead. Many historians agree that the idea for the powers of the pope with the College of Cardinals came from the Pagan College of Pontiffs with its Sovereign Pontiff which had no doubt been in Rome from the earliest times, and must have been framed on the order of the original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon. It's also obvious to any historian that while the Catholics have called themselves Christians, they more closely resemble the ancient pagans both in customs and names. Pope Gregory I (601 AD) said in so many words literally, "We must compromise with the pagans in order to further Christianity."...'http://www.upublish.info/Article/The-Pope--Pontifex-Maximus-/693298

Compromise, interesting word, so the Roman Catholic leaders found it necerssary to compromise then force others to do so, and in doing it made 'made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.' So what are these fornications.

Re: What is the wine of the wrath of her fornication? [Re: Rick H] #144581
08/14/12 04:06 PM
08/14/12 04:06 PM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,118
Florida, USA
As soon as it was allowed by the declining Roman Empire the Bishop of Rome became even more powerful than the other bishops and competed and surpassed Alexandria and the other centers of Christian influence. By the time of Emperor Constantine, the Christian religion received imperial sanction and the bishop of Rome became more than just another bishop, and brought in a system of worhip from another origin than Christianity.

After the fall of Rome, the Bishop of Rome served as a source of authority and continuity from the old empire but Rome had also been the center of the pagan priests and their temples during the Roman Empire, and they did not go away. The Bishop of Rome, to bring in more converts brought what they were familiar with and allowed the traditional Roman mysteries and deities of solar monism such as Mithras and Sol Invictus and idol worship back into the church, along with its Pagan doctrines, graven images and ceremonies. It renamed the mother godess and others that were worshiped and brought them into the church at Rome, then with its influence it spread into the other centers of Christianity. So next lets take a look at the Roman mysteries and the changes to the day of worship and how they were brought in.

Christians at Rome had been faithful as they were persecuted for many years but as they became accepted and persecution stop, other challenges faced them. Greek philosphy and Ghonosticism had been picked up and in Rome the old beliefs and festivals were still followed by the Romans and many Christian and leaders didnt see a problem with it. The first issue began when early in the life of the Church, disputes arose as the bishop of Rome allowed the celebration of the Pasch or Passover to continue till the following Sunday so Christians could also celebrate Spring Equinox festival as they had done before. Now the danger of allowing the Christians to join in pagan solistice celebrations was overlooked as the new pagan 'converts' joined the church and swelled the numbers under the bishop of Rome. But other Christian leaders saw the danger of worship according to the old pagan festivals and tried to stop it in what came to be known as Paschal/Easter controversies. The first recorded such controversy came to be known as the Quartodeciman controversy.

Eusebius of Caesarea (Church History, V, xxiii) wrote:
"A question of no small importance arose at that time [i.e. the time of Pope Victor I, about A.D. 190]. The dioceses of all Asia, according to an ancient tradition, held that the fourteenth day of the moon [of Nisan], on which day the Jews were commanded to sacrifice the lamb, should always be observed as the feast of the life-giving pasch (epi tes tou soteriou Pascha heortes), contending that the fast ought to end on that day, whatever day of the week it might happen to be. However it was not the custom of the churches in the rest of the world to end it at this point, as they observed the practice, which from Apostolic tradition has prevailed to the present time, of terminating the fast on no other day than on that of the Resurrection of our Saviour." So the bishop of Rome began the practice of fixing the celebration of Passover for Christians on Sunday and it spread through the old areas of the Empire.Polycarp the disciple of John the Apostle who was now the bishop of Smyrna, came and confronted Anicetus, the Bishop of Rome who had allow the changes in the Passover and other changes to bring in converts.According to Irenaeus, around the 150s or 160, Polycarp visited Rome to discuss the differences that existed between the other centers of Christianity in Asia and Rome "with regard to certain things" and especially about the time of the Pasch or Passover which in Rome were now the Easter festivals. Irenaeus says that Polycarp, the bishop of Smyrna, observed the fourteenth day of the moon, whatever day of the week that might be, following therein the tradition which he derived from John the Apostle. Irenaeus said that on certain things the two bishops speedily came to an understanding, while as to the time of the Pasch and the change to Easter, each adhered to his own custom. Polycarp following the eastern practice of celebrating Passover on the 14th of Nisan, the day of the Jewish Passover, regardless of what day of the week it fell while the bishop of Rome let it be observed on Sunday.


So the Bishop of Rome ignore the warning and contined to allow the Passover to be observed on Sunday at the pagan Spring Equinox festival connected to the goddess Eostre the "goddess of sunrise" so this is how the Pasch was change to the festival of Easter. But not only was it just the festival as more pagan converts came in, they were allowed to worship on the pagan day of worship which they were used to, while Christians continued to worship on Sabbath. When Polycarp was martyrd for standing against the pagan worship, the Smyrnaean letter known as the Martyrdom of Polycarp states that Polycarp was taken on the day of the Sabbath and killed on the Great Sabbath, so we see that he observed the Sabbath.Scholar William Cave wrote, "...the Sabbath or Saturday (for so the word sabbatum is constantly used in the writings of the fathers, when speaking of it as it relates to Christians) was held by them in great veneration, and especially in the Eastern parts honoured with all the public solemnities of religion. But in the Western part of the Empire, Sunday had entered in through the back door celebration of the Pasch or Passover.

But it gets even worse, as later, one of the bishops of Rome, around 195, which some call Pope Victor I attempted to excommunicate the Christians who continued correctly to celebrate the the Pasch or Passover, turning the divergence of practice into a full-blown ecclesiastical controversy. According to Eusebius, synods were convened and letters were exchanged, but in the end, having over-stepped his mark Pope Victor was rebuked and backed down.
Eusebius of Caesarea (Church History, V, xxiv) notes:
"But this did not please all the bishops. And they besought him to consider the things of peace, and of neighborly unity and love. Words of theirs are extant, sharply rebuking Victor. Among them was Irenæus, who, sending letters in the name of the brethren in Gaul over whom he presided, maintained that the mystery of the resurrection of the Lord should be observed only on the Lord’s day. He fittingly admonishes Victor that he should not cut off whole churches of God which observed the tradition of an ancient custom."

So now you see where the 'Lord’s day' comes in and it wasnt from the disciple of John the Apostle or John himself. So we have one part of the fornication, Sunday worship...

Re: What is the wine of the wrath of her fornication? [Re: Rick H] #144582
08/14/12 04:09 PM
08/14/12 04:09 PM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,118
Florida, USA
Now as the Bishop of Rome gained more converts his area and influence grew, and people natuarally looked to Rome as they had during the Empire as the center of authority. It used Easter as a tool to bring more pagans into the church, but instead of having them shed their pagan ways and ceremonies, it allow them into the church. Lets take a look at Easter which was an ancient pagan festival and the pagan solstice celebrations were brought in and given a Christian veneer so pagans could join and continue as they had during the Empire. The pagan festival or Spring Equinox festival was characterized by the rejoining of the Mother Goddess and her lover-consort-son, who spent the winter months in death and has been connected to the goddess Eostre the "goddess of sunrise" . In Deutsche Mythologie, Jacob Grimm speculates on the nature of the goddess....

"Eástre seems therefore to have been the divinity of the radiant dawn, of upspringing light, a spectacle that brings joy and blessing, whose meaning could be easily adapted by the resurrection-day of the christian's God. Bonfires were lighted at Easter and according to popular belief of long standing, the moment the sun rises on Easter Sunday morning, he gives three joyful leaps, he dances for joy...Water drawn on the Easter morning is, like that at Christmas, holy and healing.. "

Easter is nothing else but Ashtarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the Queen of Heaven. The Easter “buns” were used in the worship of the queen of heaven, the goddess of Easter. As early as the days of Cecrops, the founder of Athens, fifteen hundred years before the Christian era. The prophet Jeremiah takes notice of this offering when he says,

“The children gather wood, the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough to make cakes to the Queen of heaven.” ( Jer. 7:18 )

The hot cross buns were given as offering on the festival of Astarte.The origin of the Easter egg, was from ancient times were they were used in religious rituals throughout Egypt and Greece. Eggs were hung for mystic purposes in temples. These sacred eggs can be traced to the banks of the Euphrates and Babylon paganism. So festivals from paganism were brought in and forced on the nations in the name of 'Christianity' under the Roman Catholic church and we can see this part of the fornication...

Re: What is the wine of the wrath of her fornication? [Re: Rick H] #144583
08/14/12 04:14 PM
08/14/12 04:14 PM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,118
Florida, USA
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Matthew 6:7

The use of amulets, the Rosary or prayers to Mary the 'Queen or Heaven' and all of Mariology was nothing but the old Babylonian worship. This system of worship has essentially been maintained even is hidden as prayers, mysteries, rituals, or ceremonies or in some form or another. The ancient Chaldeans had a system of sun worship, representing the father, mother, and the son. These were the god Bel or Merodach, Ninus the son, who was also worshipped as Tammuz, and the female goddess Rhea who was also worshipped as Ishtar, Astarte, or Beltis representing the mother. She was also referred to as the ‘queen of heaven’, and the ‘wrath subduer’.

The Greeks had pick up and adopt the Babylonian gods and the Greek Doura (the Greek temple in Mesopotamia) freely admitted the gods of Babylon. The foreign gods were given or take Greek names(Tarn, ibid., pp. 301, 302).

Speaking of this Babylonian system, Dr. Cumont remarks:

'The native religions retained all their prestige and independence. In their ancient sanctuaries that took rank with the richest and most famous in the world, a powerful clergy continued to practise ancestral devotions according to barbarian rites, and frequently liturgy, everywhere performed with scrupulous respect.. (Oriental Religions in Roman Paganism, p. 22).

Rituals, incantations, and omen literature were frequently copied and studied, as were Sumerian hymns and their Babylonian translations. . . .So we see how this is part of the fornication along with the prayers, amulets, and worship of Mary, the ancient 'Queen of Heaven'.

Re: What is the wine of the wrath of her fornication? [Re: Rick H] #144584
08/14/12 04:23 PM
08/14/12 04:23 PM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,118
Florida, USA
Now the pagan priests were celibate, tonsured, and received the power of sacrificing for the living and the dead. Phallic symbols, as well as symbols of femininity and divine intercourse, were common in ancient temples (as they are in some modern churches and temples). Myths and traditions were allowed and came into the church in many forms and shapes that the people had worshiped in paganism as they had served as a symbol of the cosmos, astrological signs, globes as symbols of rulership of the universe, sacred hearts as used in many sun cults, sacred animals (many of them mythological such as dragons, the serpent, unicorn and the phoenix), fertility symbols such as pine cones (pagan deities wore the pine cone on their crosier), sacred trees (symbols of the suffering and resurrected sungod) and even celebecy was brought in from paganism, it was never required of any of the apostles or the leaders of the early church.

So much of the 'tradition' that came into the church was from paganism, the corruption from the Gnostic sect had brought about what is called the Disciplina Arcani or Discipline of the Secret or Discipline of the Arcane, which was a restriction imposing silence upon Christians with respect to their rites and doctrines. It was a theological term used to describe the custom which came in and prevailed in the church, whereby knowledge of the more 'intimate mysteries' of the Christian religion was carefully kept from non-Christians and even from those who were undergoing instruction in the faith. The church in the early stages picked up pagan oral teachings from Greek and Hellenistic sources which formed the basis of this secret oral tradition, which in the 4th century came to be called the disciplina arcani. It is believe that it contained liturgical details and certain other pagan traditions which remain a part of Christianity, for example, the doctrine of Transubstantiation is thought to have been a part of this. So even the symbols and worship was turned into a fornication and forced upon the nations...


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