I think this is a good issue which is directed specifically on did Arminius get a better understading of truth than John Calvin, and it was rejected? We see in history that Martin Luther was presented with the Sabbath and was not ready to accept that truth so how about the other Reformers, and did others try to give the truth and it was set aside. So the question is, did Arminius get it right in a better understanding of predestination and free will, than John Calvin and it get set aside? Its important as Adventist thought on this is very much Arminian, lets get some background.

Jacobus Arminius was a Dutch pastor born in 1559, only five years before the death of John Calvin. At the age of 17, Arminius enrolled at Leiden University and after five years of education — still too young for a pastorate — Arminius traveled to study at Calvin's academy in Geneva. Theodore Beza, Calvin's hand-picked successor, was the chairman of theology at the university, and admiration flowed both directions in his friendship with Arminius. Beza later defended Arminius by saying "let it be known to you that from the time Arminius returned to us from Basel, his life and learning both have so approved themselves to us, that we hope the best of him in every respect…" [4] In late 1587, at the age of 28, Arminius returned to Amsterdam to fulfil his desire to be a pastor.

Arminius' entry into the predestination debate that was raging in Amsterdam happened only two short years after his return when he was asked by city officials to refute a modified form of Beza's high Calvinism. According to historic tradition, Arminius' study of the Scriptures led him to the conclusion that the Bible did not support Calvinism.[5] Other scholars believe that Arminius never accepted Beza's views, even while a student at Geneva.[6] Regardless, Arminius avoided adding to the controversy and, apart from two incidents regarding sermons on Romans 7 and Romans 9, he lived in peace for a little more than a decade.

When Arminius received his doctorate and professorship of theology at Leiden in 1603, the debate over Calvinism roared back to life. Arminius rose to the forefront of the debate, teaching and defending that Calvinist predestination and unconditional election made God the author of evil. Instead, Arminius insisted, God's election was an election of believers and therefore was conditioned on faith. Furthermore, Arminius argued, God's exhaustive foreknowledge did not require a doctrine of determinism.[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Calvinist-Arminian_Debate

As can be seen, Arminius was a strict Calvinist early on in the Reformed Church of Holland, but later he developed a set of doctrines that were divergient from the widely accepted doctrines of Calvinism. Arminius's teachings concerning sin, selection, predestination, and eternal security attracted a following. Some time after his death in 1609 some of his followers consolidated his teachings into 5 concise points:

Arminianism

D = Depravity (Partial depravity or Dead, but somehow alive). Although human nature was seriously affected by the fall, man has not been left in a state of total spiritual helplessness. God graciously enables every sinner to repent and believe, but He does so in such a manner as not to interfere with man's freedom. Each sinner possesses a free will, and his eternal destiny depends on how he uses it. Man's freedom consists of his ability to choose good over evil in spiritual matters; his will is not enslaved to his sinful nature. The sinner has the power to either cooperate with God's Spirit and be regenerated or resist God's grace and perish. The lost sinner needs the Spirit's assistance, but he does not have to be regenerated by the Spirit before he can believe, for faith is man's act and precedes the new birth. Faith is the sinner's gift to God; It is man's contribution to salvation.

A = Arbitrary Selection (Abolition of True Grace). God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world was based upon His foreseeing that they would respond to His call. He selected only those whom He knew would of themselves freely believe the gospel. Election therefore was termined by or conditioned upon what man would do. The faith which God foresaw and upon which He based His choice was not given to the sinner by God (it was not created by the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit) but resulted solely from man's will. It was left entirely up to man as to who would believe and therefore as to who would be elected unto salvation. God chose those whom He knew would, of their own free will, choose Christ. Thus the sinner's choice of Christ, not God's choice of the sinner, is the ultimate cause of salvation.

I = Inequitable Limitation (of Christ's selection). Christ's redeeming work made it possible for everyone to be saved but did not actually secure the salvation of anyone. Although Christ died for all men and for every man, only those who believe in Him are saved. His death enabled God to pardon sinners on the condtition that they believe, but it did not actually put away anyone's sins. Christ's redemption becomes effective only if man chooses to accept it.

S = Sovereignty (of the sinner). The Spirit calls inwardly all those who are called outwardly by the gospel invitation; He does all that He can to bring every sinner to salvation. But inasmuch as man is free, he can successfully resist the Spirit's call. The Spirit cannot regenerate the sinner until he believes; faith (which is man's contribution) precedes and makes possible the new birth. Thus, man's free will limits the Spirit in the application of Christ's saving work. The Holy Spirit can only draw to Christ those who allow Him to have His way with them. Until the sinner responds, the Spirit cannot give life. God's grace, therefore, is not invincible; it can be, and often is, resisted and thwarted by man.

Y = Yielding Eternal Uncertainty. Those who believe and are truly saved can lose their salvation by failing to keep up their faith, etc. All Arminians have not been agreed on this point; some have held that believers are eternally secure in Christ -- that once a sinner is regenerated, he can never be lost. According to Arminianism: Salvation is accomplished through the combined efforts of God (who takes the initiative) and man (who must respond) -- man's response being the determining factor. God has provided salvation for everyone, but His provision becomes effective only for those who, of their own free will, choose to cooperate with Him and accept His offer of grace. At the crucial point, man's will plays a decisive role; thus man, not God, determines who will be the recipients of the gift of salvation.


Now the Reformed Church of Holland conducted a formal inquiry into the claims of the Arminians, and thus, the Synod of Dort was formed. In 1619 the Arminians got their answers in the form of an article known as The Canons of the Synod of Dort. The synod answered each of the five points presented by the Arminians with five contrary points that we now call "The Five Points of Calvinism," :

Calvinism

T = Total depravity/ Total inability. Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in in bondage to his evil nature, therefore, he will not -- indeed he cannot -- choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit's assistance to bring a sinner to Christ -- it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God's gift of salvation -- it is God's gift to the sinner, not the sinner's gift to God.

U = Unconditional Election. God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response or obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selected. These acts are the result, not the cause of God's choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignly elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God's choice of the sinner, not the sinner's choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation.

L = Limited Atonement. Christ's redeeming work was intended to save the elect only and actually secured salvation for them. His death was a substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners. In addition to putting away the sins of His people, Christ's redemption secured everything necessary for their salvation, including faith which unites them to Him. The gift of faith is infallibly applied by the Spirit to all for whom Christ died, thereby guaranteeing their salvation.

I = Irresistable Grace. In addition to the outward general call to salvation which is made to everyone who hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation. The external call (which is made to all without distinction) can be and often is, rejected; whereas the internal call (which is made only to the elect) cannot be rejected; it always results in conversion. By means of this special call the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to Christ. He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man's will, nor is He dependent upon man's cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God's grace, therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended.

P = Perseverance of the Saints. All who were chosen by God, redeemed by Christ, and given faith by the Spirit are eternally saved. They are kept in faith by the power of Almighty God and thus persevere to the end. According to Calvinism: Salvation is accomplished by the almighty power of the Triune God. The Father chose a people, the Son died for them, the Holy Spirit makes Christ's death effective by bringing the elect to faith and repentance, thereby causing them to willingly obey the gospel. The entire process (election, redemption, regeneration) is the work of God and is by grace alone. Thus God, not man, determines who will be the recipients of the gift of salvation.

http://www.lifegoeson.net/InTruth/

Now the Reformed Church of Holland at the Synod of Dort absolutely rejected Arminianism as heretical, and confirmed Calvinism as the true doctrine of Christ's church. Yet if you look at the points, it seems clear the Church was solidifying into the Calvinist Creed and rejecting a better understanding on these issues.

Lets look at John Calvins points that were articulated:

T = Total depravity/ Total inability. Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel.
How could man have free will if he cannot decide for himself to choose between good and evil? We are not robots, if our free will was gone, how could God show Satan was wrong in his acusations that God was not fair and just.

U = Unconditional Election. God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will.
How could man have even choose between good and evil, if the choice was already made? I would say God knows the end from the beginning but being a God of love would never withhold salvation from anyone but it would a open offer to everyone.

L = Limited Atonement. Christ's redeeming work was intended to save the elect only and actually secured salvation for them.
I think most of Protestism rejects this view.

I = Irresistable Grace. In addition to the outward general call to salvation which is made to everyone who hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation.
This would make God unfair, and I just cant see my way to that belief.

P = Perseverance of the Saints. All who were chosen by God, redeemed by Christ, and given faith by the Spirit are eternally saved. They are kept in faith by the power of Almighty God and thus persevere to the end.
This clearly leads to ONCE SAVE ALWAYS SAVED and who is to say who is saved, man cannot no matter how hard they try.

Now lets look at Jacobus Arminius views:

D = Depravity (Partial depravity or Dead, but somehow alive). Although human nature was seriously affected by the fall, man has not been left in a state of total spiritual helplessness.
Man has to have free will or there is no struggle between good and evil to show whether God is right.

A = Arbitrary Selection (Abolition of True Grace). God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world was based upon His foreseeing that they would respond to His call.
I have a hard time wrapping my mind around this view but God does according to His will and purpose, not mans.

I = Inequitable Limitation (of Christ's selection). Christ's redeeming work made it possible for everyone to be saved but did not actually secure the salvation of anyone.
I would say man must choose, and the Holy Spirit helps lead man to eternal life.

S = Sovereignty (of the sinner). The Spirit calls inwardly all those who are called outwardly by the gospel invitation; He does all that He can to bring every sinner to salvation.
All are called and the Holy Spirit guides and transforms those who accept.

Y = Yielding Eternal Uncertainty. Those who believe and are truly saved can lose their salvation by failing to keep up their faith
I would say man can loose their salvation even if they are doing Gods work. Jonah comes to mind as he resisted God, and Elijah and Moses both had days were they just wanted to give up or have their name taken out of the book of life.


To me it looks like God was unvieling more truth but as many churches of the Reformation did, the Calvinist Church hunkered down and solidified itself into a creed, and stopped unraveling more of Gods truth and rejected further steps of spiritual growth leaving the Reformation along with the other churches, for the lack of a better word, 'stranded'. What are your thoughts?

When churches develop their own creed and cling to that, truth, if there be any truth in their respective creeds, goes no further than whatever truth, again if any, was in their respective creeds.

John 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now."

This is a common theme throughout the history of the reformation till this very day. Men are limited by their faith. The Apostles had a faith problem.

The Samaritan woman had more faith than the apostles. She realized her unworthiness and said "even the dog's get to eat the crumbs from the masters table" and Jesus said He had not found as great of faith in all of Israel.

He did the same for the Roman Centurion and his family. And they had the fruit of the Spirit before baptism.

By our faith we are propelled to truth or limited by disbelief.

It's important to look at what the men in question actually said rather that what others said they said. If you were to do that Rick you'll likely find that Calvin and Arminius weren't poles apart like their followers were.

But regarding Calvinism, I've thought for years that although Adventists are staunchly in the Wesleyan/Armenian school, we have more to learn from Calvin. The thing that attracts me about Calvin is his respect and consistency on divine sovereignty. His positions are biblically sound from what little I've read of him, but the same can't be said of his followers.

Ellen White struck a good balance. She comes out clearly in saying that repentance is a gift. If that's so, then what does that say about the role of our faith? Doesn't that make our faith secondary and the grace of God sovereign?


So, in my humble opinion Calvin is totally correct in calling grace "sovereign", not the human will. Grace gives us the opportunity to exercise our faith and to strengthen and brace our wills to do right.

We know that the Reformers rejected Saturday (Sabbath) over Sunday (Lord's Day).

"Among the reformers of the church an honorable place should be given to those who stood in vindication of a truth generally ignored, even by Protestants,—those who maintained the validity of the fourth commandment, and the obligation of the Bible Sabbath. When the Reformation swept back the darkness that had rested down on all Christendom, Sabbath-keepers were brought to light in many lands. No class of Christians have been treated with greater injustice by popular historians than have those who honored the Sabbath. They have been stigmatized as semi-Judaizers, or denounced as superstitious and fanatical. The arguments which they presented from the Scriptures in support of their faith were met as such arguments are still met, with the cry, The Fathers, the Fathers! ancient tradition, the authority of the church! {4SP 179.3}
Luther and his co-laborers accomplished a noble work for God; but, coming as they did from the Roman Church, having themselves believed and advocated her doctrines, it was not to be expected that they would discern all these errors. It was their work to break the fetters of Rome, and to give the Bible to the world; yet there were important truths which they failed to discover, and grave errors which they did not renounce. Most of them continued to observe the Sunday with other papal festivals. They did not, indeed, regard it as possessing divine authority, but believed that it should be observed as a generally accepted day of worship. {4SP 180.1}

The next few paragraphs after 4SP 180.1 are also worth noting here:

Did you know that a book was written in 1657 called

THE
SEVENTH-DAY
SABBATH
Sought out and celebrated
OR
The Saints last Design upon the
Man of sin, with their advance of
God’s first institution to its
Primitive perfection, being a clear
Discovery of that black
Character in the head of the
Little Horn, Dan. 7:25
THE
Change of TIMES & LAWS

by Thomas Tillam

Amen Brother Daryl, Elder Trask and his wife were convicted by the light of truth beyond present truth in the time coming out of the age of darkness. He recanted so it is inappropriate to put his wife together with him, but her forgotten name will actually be greater in the kingdom than the reformers.

She did not reject what God had convicted them to receive. She exceeded the expectations of God for the people.

Martin Luther was the first to come out of the deep darkness of the fallen church and had strength in the truth that he received, but did not exceed what was available to him. He even debated God about his use of beer and liquor.

No I didn't.

Is available online somewhere?