I am now posting the link to the Lesson Study Material for this 4th Quarter of 2012:

http://www.ssnet.org/lessons/12d/

Feel free to use this thread to discuss anything that interests you in any lesson in this 4th Quarter.

Here is the link to Lesson #1:

http://www.ssnet.org/lessons/12d/less01.html

The lesson is titled - The Great Controversy: The Foundation

These lessons are written by Kwabena Donkor who is an associate director of the Biblical Research Institute at the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists in Silver Spring, Maryland. Kwabena is from Ghana.

You will find a number of articles he has written in MINISTRY, like

http://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/2008/April/new-testament-house-churches.html

From the beginning this lesson points us to the fact that it is difficult to understand the impact of Christianity on your daily life without also understanding that there is a living devil who is at your heels as well as attempting to enter your mind and being.

This lesson deals with what connects all of our doctrines together

I edited my firat post to say that this is the 4th quarter and not the 3rd quarter.

Lesson #4: Salvation: The Only Solution

A Lutheran professor belonging to the most Biblical branch of the Lutheran church, once told me that among all the "other" Christian churches, the Seventh-day Adventists have the most Biblical concept of soteriology - the teaching of salvation.

If we have such a beautiful concept of salvation, isn't that what we should be sharing with others?

Do we really know what salvation means to us? This is what this lesson is about.

Paul describes all nature as groaning under the burden of sin.

Is this what God wants to rescue us from? How?

Is all destruction caused by sin?

Does God destroy or heal?

This lesson points out that our salvation is by grace, which means that we must not make any attempt to save ourselves.

Is that practical Christianity?

Look at the Monday section

Do we need to define sin in order to understand this lesson?

Satan is the destroyer; Christ is the Restorer. FULL STOP

Sin is transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4. Do we need to define what law? Is the law proscriptive or descriptive? Do we need to define grace? My Bible definition of grace is found in these verses: Titus 3:5-7 and Isaiah 53:11.

That is what we need to understand. Thanks!

Is that the only Biblical definition of sin? How about John 16:8-9?

How is the law defined in the rest of 1 John 3?

Of course there is: Romans 14:23 "...for whatever is not of faith is sin"
1 John 5:17 "All unrighteousness is sin:..."

Yes, salvation is by grace alone, far as the merits are concerned and death of the old man to sin in the person of the Saviour.

Grace is the initiative of God in giving us himself in the person of his Son, achieving by himself the salvation of the world. Thus, Mon & Tues are God's actions of salvation.

This is more than a "provision of an offer", though, as we commonly call it. Rom 3:23; 5:18 call it a gift of grace. That's the true force and breadth of Christ's actions.

Wed & Thur talk of our experience of salvation, by grace through faith: our participation in the divine nature by the Spirit of God and of Christ. For practical Christianity, you need a divine foundation.

Btw, all destruction is not caused by sin alone: God's judgement against sin is also destructive - eg. Noah's flood.

God in Christ wishes that none should perish but all come to repentance, indeed; yet, divine judgement shall happen, too.

The size of sin...

What did God set out to save us from, and nature with us?

The requirement for the Son of God to take our fallen, sinful human nature as his own was to bear its condemnation in his person to the cross: sinful nature itself is subject to condemnation, and must be executed eternally, for it cannot be accepted by God.

That's the extent of the sin definition we need to fathom to understand the scope of the problem of sin that God solved in giving us his Son. Amen.

I'm not even sure I understand what you said.

OH! I get it. So the wages of sin is really execution by God. Gotchya. Love me, or I'll bring a flood on you, or burn you alive. After all, God is love!

Revelation
16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments.
18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong [is] the Lord God who judgeth her.

Doesn't it depend on how you look at these texts? Her plagues shall come in one day - is it because the Lord will punish her for her evil deeds, or is it because she herself has filled her cup of evil up above the brim?

Is God increasing the punishment or does the destruction come as a direct result of the evil she has done? Her unwillingness to bein harmony with LIFE and the LIFEGIVER?

These are all wonderful promises.

Yes, Satan is a destroyer. It is interesting the holy angels plead with Jesus to punish the wicked twice as much.

You wouldn't "accuse" them of getting angry? They have for 6,000 years experienced the results of sin.

Amen. They will be happy to have it over. Justice will be vindicated. Nobody will acuse Jesus of being soft on sin ot too hard on sinners.

Is it vengeance or result?

Punishment.

PS - Not sure how Sabbath breaking can result in weeping and gnashing of teeth in the lake of fire.

Question: Is the Sabbath arbitrary?

Questions: was the prohibition from eating from the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, arbitrary?

Neither one were arbitary.

What is arbitrary?

At the previous Camp Meeting I had been ordained as a pastor/evangelist by my conference when in cooperation with the local elder we won a young couple for the truth. They were both brought up by devoted Lutheran families. When the father of the young lady heard his daughter considered baptism, he asked her how she could turn her back on the Jesus she had learned to love in her home.

The daughter told her parents how much she appreciated the Christian faith they had taught her since her early childhood. She assured them she would never think of turning her back on Jesus. She told them how she through the Bible studies had learned so much more about Jesus, and that Jesus was now calling her to come a step closer to Him. How can I refuse to accept the call of Jesus?

Her father said, if this was the case he would just have to support her in her decision.

This is how Ellen White teaches us to present the Advent Message.

I believe we should never present the Sabbath any other way than an invitation by Jesus Christ to take a step closer to Him. Why did Ellen tell the Brethren around 1888 that our preaching of the commandments had become as dry as the dust on the Hills of Gilboah? That we should proclaim our message with Jesus Christ as the center? Nothing is arbitrary in our religion, neither commandments nor policies. It is all an invitation to accept Jesus Christ as our Savior. If you are not convinced of that I invite you to read 1 John 3:4-24.

Wouldn't you consider this an invitation to live happily in full sympathy and loving care of their Creator?

Again I think 1 John 3:4-24 gives a beautiful picture of the difference between the arbitrary and the relationship with God and your family/neighbor.

Johann, rest assured, I do not see the Sabbath, nor the Tree of Knowledge of G&E as arbitrary! The statement was made, "
PS - Not sure how Sabbath breaking can result in weeping and gnashing of teeth in the lake of fire."

PS - Not sure how Sabbath breaking can result in weeping and gnashing of teeth in the lake of fire.

That is, not sure how Sabbath breaking naturally results in weeping and gnashing of teeth in the lake of fire. Seems more likely it is imposed punishment. When I break the Sabbath or commit any other sin it hasn't resulted in weeping and gnashing of teeth in the lake of fire. In fact, breaking the Sabbath has never yielded discernible negative results.

When the people see that the truth of the Sabbath was right there before their eyes the whole time and they missed it, I would certainly say it would be upsetting for most people to say nothing of the consequences...

God is love, and holy and just and good.

Our God is a consuming fire, so sin cannot exist in his presence. When probation is over, mercy no longer pleads for sinners: annihilation of the wicked will be God's strange act, given his love, yet unavoidable, since God our Father and his Son our Lord Jesus Christ are holy.

So, if the consequences of breaking the Sabbath need to be imposed, then the law of the Sabbath is arbitrary. Just as a speed limit of 55 MPH is arbitrary. That is not to say that a speed limit of 55 MPH is not good, but it is arbitrary. It could be 54 MPH, or 56 MPH, but someone decided, that 55 was what it was going to be. So probably, having Sabbath on Sunday is not so bad, or Friday. And then, if the punishment must be imposed for murder, and stealing, and coveting, or worshiping idols, then God really is a tyrant, and the phrase, "Love me, or I'll kill you" is true. And then lets quote Romans 6:23 this way, "The wages of sin, is execution by God". And we need to change our understand of James 1:13-15, which reads, "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death." We need to change this to when sin is finished, God out of Love will execute you. The penalty is imposed, not intrinsic.

If all this is true, then EGW got it all wrong. Consider:Do you get the idea that breaking the 10C brings on an Imposed penalty, or an Intrinsic?


The soul that sins, will it be executed or will it die? Is the penalty imposed or intrinsic?

Did Christ die an execution by God? Is the "hiding of the Father's face" an execution?

Read chapter of The Great Controversy. Is the penalty of trangression intrinsic or imposed? Is the penalty intrinsic or imposed? We need to know the answer to this question. If the penalty is imposed, then God really is a tyrant. If the penalty is imposed, then why not impose it at the beginning? But the penalty is not imposed. It is intrinsic. Read Patriarchs and Prophets then chapter, "Why Was Sin Permitted"? Is it clear that if the natural consequences of sin were allowed to proceed, then the on looking universe would not have understood. The would have believed Satan's charges. Read this chapter!

The question about Sabbath keeping, is the penalty for breaking the Sabbath, intrinsic or imposed, needs to be understood. Just as the eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, needs to be understood whether the penalty is intrinsic or imposed. I will say that I don't have all the answers why how Sabbath breaking caused intrinsic death. But I believe it does and I believe there are hints in science. Conclusive? No, but hints.

Question - is sin can not exist in God's presence, then is the destruction of sinners an imposed penalty or intrinsic?

God is a consuming fire, Hebrews 12:29. Isaiah 33:14-15 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness has surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? 15 He that walks righteously, and speaks uprightly; he that despises the gain of oppressions, that shakes his hands from holding of bribes, that stops his ears from hearing of blood, and shuts his eyes from seeing evil;

Again, is the destruction of the wicked and imposed penalty, or is it intrinsic?

Yes, sometimes the consequences of sinning are natural in this lifetime. No doubt about it. Take drugs and the mind is wasted. Smoke and the lungs suffer. Break the Sabbath and miss out on sacred rest. But the lake of fire is punishment. Not arbitrarily imposed. It is a promise. You sin, you suffer and die in the lake of fire.

So, natural consequences were not allowed to proceed, right? - for the reasons of fully understanding the great controversy, indeed.

There are many issues behind your point, here, of course. God is just and also merciful, and we see generations of mercy while probation lasts with only a small sampling of justice, eg. Sodom..., and Babylonian captivity.

Sin is in principle separation from the life giver; grace in principle and practice reconciles us with the law giver. God delays natural consequences for reasons of ending the great controversy for all eternity, since he is love.

Really, we shouldn't question his motives, for he is the potter and we are the clay.

Indeed, natural consequences were withheld. We do have a glimpse of what happens with God withdraws His had of protection in Sodom and the Babylonian captivity. The destruction of Jerusalem is a prime example of what happens when God withdraws. When I read what you have written, it seems to me that the end result of sin is not a natural consequence, but an imposed penalty. Am I reading you right or wrong?

As to questioning God, do you really think we are not to understand His motives? Really? God said, "come let us reason together" Isaiah 1:18. And this is eternal life, "that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." Jeremiah 9:23-24 Thus said the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: 24 But let him that glories glory in this, that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD which exercise loving kindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, said the LORD.

The Lord asks us, and invites us to question and understand His motives.

The following quote is from Friday, November 23rd in our Lesson Study Material:

http://www.ssnet.org/lessons/12d/less08.html#fri

This is a stern warning against any one person exercising dominion over his church members, be it local churches, local conferences, unions, divisions, etc. EGW goes so far to say that such a person, be it a pastor or a local elder, etc., should be removed.

". . . it is character alone that God values.” Amen!

I will bring this out in my next sermon where I use Philippians 2 with special emphasis on verse 5, "Let this mind be in you, which also was in Christ Jesus."

"Mind" froneite - or mindset which shapes your thoughts and actions.

Your character should be the one of Jesus Christ, the only thing that God values about you, not your own, but the mind of Jesus Christ.