Is the view among some Adventists correct that sports and secular tv are totally unacceptable, according to Ellen White's writings? How, equally, does one handle the appearance of immodesty in life and on tv.

These are questions I have not yet been able to find suitable words to answer at the moment, other than: make good selections of quality programmes, a minimum amount of time given to them, and not to dwell on immodesty around me while looking away. Moreover, on tv, controlling one's thoughts when watching women news presenters, etc, is common sense, not so. Is kissing and cuddling in movies too immodest, or what about partial nudity like in Titanic?

What principles should help us, as well as bring personal views to agreement, aside from turning off the tv, perhaps?

Those are extremely relevant questions.

Regarding Mrs. White on sports, her position seems to have been almost entirely against them, but this was balanced by the concept of needing to be a little flexible with others, meeting them where they are at, in order to be of any influence with them. If we make ourselves appear fanatical or extreme, no one will listen to us.

There is one statement, and one only, where she said "I do not condemn the simple exercise of playing ball; but this, even in its simplicity, may be overdone." (That statement, being the only one in favor of, or at least neutral toward, sports got included in various subsequent compilations after her death.) Almost all of her other statements regarding sports are scathing.

Regarding the modesty issue, I don't think women understand what they are doing to men. If men are tempted on account of their attire, they tend to blame the men. Because they themselves rarely encounter any temptation due to immodesty, they don't understand how much affected the menfolk are. And it is a big deal. Men are weakening morally and spiritually all over the world on account of immodesty. Women will have a large account to meet with on the day of reckoning.

For their part, they want attention. Especially those who had inferior father-figures in their growing-up years crave the attention of men. It is amazing to me how young girls are when they first learn coquetry. I've seen girls as young as 3-5 years who could flirt with boys and even men so well you'd think they should be older. It comes naturally to them, and they quickly learn that they get more attention when they make certain adjustments to their appearance.

Personally, I will be happy to be relieved in heaven of the baggage associated with gender issues.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

This is a highly ignored topic for the most part and it seems as if it may be part of the reason some are wondering for answers to this question. Maybe the person asking this question here should reevaluate his stance with the Lord. Is it truly "All for Jesus I Surrender", or are you trying to find right where your boundary lines are in this matter? If you are looking for exactly where your boundary lines are, in how much " kissing, cuddling, and nudity " I can see, I strongly suggest you get on your knees and ask the Lord for the answers to this question, please keep a serious open mind and heart, with all due respect.

I would like to add also, that Green Cochoa said " I don't think women understand what they are doing to men." That is true only to a little point. Are you are denying the power of the Holy Spirit to convict us of sin? Do you really think think God will leave us totally in the dark upon these things no matter how we were brought up? What time... or even what sin did we all commit that before we committed those sins, did not those 'red flags' (the holy Spirit) come floating up telling us "no please don't be foolish" and trying to reason with us?? And just for an example, I was not brought up religious at all and even as a young teenager when I went to dress in provocative clothing there was something that spoke to me "This is demoralizing." To this day if a shirt is too low, I have always put a safety pin there in order to keep it modest, in all reality being modest is true beauty. After all dressing to impress others, especially to please ANY mans eye, takes quite a bit of gall to do so. There truly is no such thing as "they did not know", it is only common sense, especially in this day and age. It is demoralizing and the consequences are somewhat obvious as you mentioned here " Women will have a large account to meet with on the day of reckoning."

On the other side of the coin, girls may not realize it's far reaching consequences in choosing to dress immodestly, act immodest in any way, and to do things that are immodest. Many younger girls especially probably don't realize how far down this can take their souls into degradation. It is this aspect that they don't see clearly. Just like any other sin, is it not? We know it is a sin, but we choose to keep a blind eye to the fact that there will be consequences or we choose to commit the sin and take the consequences too, while deep down we hope it will not be too much. So this aspect that "they are not aware" of how they are dressed is not true, especially so for this generation that are plainly and openly taught to use their bodies in such a way. Especially is it so not true among God's professed women that are getting middle aged and upward, to dress 'sexy' in God's house on the sabbath.

It is interesting this topic of modesty when you look at it in various ways. For example, we as a people of God would NEVER stand for someone sitting in our congregation with an open can of beer! We would never stand for someone smoking a cigarette either, right in God's house Sabbath or not. Openly having an affair in Gods house, over our dead body practically. Someone stealing right out of the offering money, would be reprimanded right away. We would never stand for someone that wears a tee shirt with a marijuana picture on it (a regular member that is) We would never stand for someone trying to sell cars or such on the Sabbath in Gods house, that is totally unacceptable. Anything along those lines we simply would NOT tolerate...But YET we tolerate women, left and right, wearing immodest clothing, provocative clothing in God's house on His Sabbath day, in what should be a day of rest for our weary souls! We accept women all the time in God's house who are obviously trying to look "sexy", by golly if you don't like it turn away.

Maybe it is time we find a way to lovingly work on this problem- as it does break down the powerful blessed unity the church should otherwise have, and it does break down the aspect of a "true day of rest."

I pray that people will be more wiling to talk about this and find the truths, on that hand I honor the fellow who asked this question, for being brave enough to open a "can of worms" that most people would rather just leave with God - while all the while our churches are breaking down slowly......but surely.

P.S. What SOP has to say about dressing immodestly is stern and to the point, clear as crystal. Even dressing to much like the fashions of this world, should be lovingly worked on, after all, there is a soul to be won or lost.

God bless.

And exposed arms and legs is one of those examples most commonly ignored by SDAs.
It seems she was right, 'the world has converted the church.'

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I could be wrong, but I think we do have a thread somewhere on EGW and women's clothing.

If I locate it, I will bump it into the active list of threads.