HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,619
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 21
kland 9
Daryl 4
May
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Member Spotlight
dedication
dedication
Canada
Posts: 6,438
Joined: April 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
5 registered members (dedication, Karen Y, Nadi, 2 invisible), 3,409 guests, and 22 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Born again free from sin: True or false? [Re: Charity] #145641
09/30/12 04:34 PM
09/30/12 04:34 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
James, Mike, what do you think of this statement?

There are those who have known the pardoning love of Christ and who really desire to be children of God, yet they realize that their character is imperfect, their life faulty, and they are ready to doubt whether their hearts have been renewed by the Holy Spirit. To such I would say, Do not draw back in despair. We shall often have to bow down and weep at the feet of Jesus because of our shortcomings and mistakes, but we are not to be discouraged. . . .{SC 64.1}

The closer you come to Jesus, the more faulty you will appear in your own eyes; for your vision will be clearer, and your imperfections will be seen in broad and distinct contrast to His perfect nature. This is evidence that Satan's delusions have lost their power; that the vivifying influence of the Spirit of God is arousing you. {SC 64.2}

No deep-seated love for Jesus can dwell in the heart that does not realize its own sinfulness. The soul that is transformed by the grace of Christ will admire His divine character; but if we do not see our own moral deformity, it is unmistakable evidence that we have not had a view of the beauty and excellence of Christ. {SC 65.1}

The less we see to esteem in ourselves, the more we shall see to esteem in the infinite purity and loveliness of our Saviour. A view of our sinfulness drives us to Him who can pardon; and when the soul, realizing its helplessness, reaches out after Christ, He will reveal Himself in power. The more our sense of need drives us to Him and to the word of God, the more exalted views we shall have of His character, and the more fully we shall reflect His image. {SC 65.2}

Regarding this passage, one thing is clear in my mind - Sister White is not saying sinning is normal for newborn believers who are abiding in Jesus. Her use of the words . . .

1. Deformity
2. Sinfulness
3. Helplessness
4. Faulty
5. Imperfections
6. Shortcomings
7. Mistakes

. . . does not imply they are sinning. Having defects, weaknesses, and imperfections is not the same thing as acting them out in thoughts, words, or deeds. Confessing our sinfulness is not the same thing as sinning. And, bowing down and weeping at the feet of Jesus "because of our shortcomings and mistakes" may or may not refer to post-conversion sinning. She may be referring to repentance deepening over past, pardoned sins. "At every advance step in our Christian experience our repentance will deepen." {AA 561.2}

Re: Born again free from sin: True or false? [Re: Mountain Man] #145663
10/01/12 02:39 AM
10/01/12 02:39 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
Banned
SDA
Active Member 2015

3500+ Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
"but if we do not see our own moral deformity, it is unmistakable evidence that we have not had a view of the beauty and excellence of Christ." {SC 65.1}

This sums it up perfectly.

If we have not seen the beauty and excellence of Christ, then we have not been converted, or born again.

So this is saying that we need to see our deformity in comparison to the beauty of the soul of Jesus in order to converted.

So in essence if we have not had an experience in this, then we have not met Jesus and cannot be saved.

It is after this moment that we can walk in faith, not until. So without this life changing epiphany can we even truly be considered converted Christians. All of the other attributes come after this.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Born again free from sin: True or false? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #145710
10/02/12 03:14 PM
10/02/12 03:14 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Regarding the timing of the death of self, Sister White wrote:

Quote:
Self must die. We find that this is hard; for self dies hard. It is not our work to uphold self. "Without Me," Christ says, "ye can do nothing." {1NL 31.5}

We may have a measure of faith, a knowledge of the theory of truth, but unless self dies, unless we live Christ's life of obedience, our profession is worthless. {RH, August 2, 1906 par. 3}

God wants to put His Spirit upon you, but He cannot do this while you are so full of self. When self dies, you will feel the quickening influence of the Spirit of God. {11MR 288.2}

But not until self dies can Christ live in us. Not until self dies can we possess a faith that works by love and purifies the soul. {OFC 131.5}

The soul is aglow with these grand and elevating themes. Holiness and truth, grace and righteousness, occupy the thoughts. Self dies, and Christ lives in His servants. {CT 341.2}

When self dies, there will be awakened an intense desire for the salvation of others,—a desire which will lead to persevering efforts to do good. {GW92 470.3}

There must be a continual exercise of faith to be in Christ and keep in Christ, abiding by faith in Him. This is a training process, a constant discipline of the mind and heart, that Christ shall work His great work in human hearts. Self, the old natural self, dies, and Christ's will is our will, His way is our way, and the human agent becomes, with heart, mind, and intellect, an instrument in the hands of God to work no more wickedness but the righteousness of Christ. {TMK 55.3}

When they fall upon Christ, their own hereditary and cultivated traits of character are taken away as hindrances to their being partakers of the divine nature. When self dies, then Christ lives in the human agent. He abides in Christ, and Christ lives in him. {YRP 62.2}

When we fall upon the living Rock, our wrong traits of character are taken away as hindrances to perfection of character. When self dies, Christ lives in the human agent. Acquaintance with Christ makes us long to abide in him, and to have him abide in us. {RH, April 25, 1899 par. 9}

When self dies, the peace of Christ will take possession of the soul. . . Every day hereditary tendencies to wrong will strive for the mastery. Every day you are to war against your objectionable traits of character, until there are left in you none of those things which need to be separated from you. Then you will think candidly and wisely how to take yourself to the Lord. You will foresee the evils which will come, unless you change by avoiding the cause which produces the effect. {VSS 304.4}

As the increasing glory of Christ is revealed, the human agent will see no glory in himself; for the concealed deformity of his soul is laid bare, and self-esteem and self-glorying are extinguished. Self dies, and Christ lives. {RH, September 18, 1894 par. 3}

The passages posted above make it abundantly clear self must die before we can experience rebirth, before Jesus can dwell within us, before we can partake of the divine nature, before we can enjoy the fruits of the Spirit. It is not a slow, gradual death. It is a sudden, immediate, full and complete death that happens after people finish the "patient, protracted process" of conversion.

Nevertheless, even after self dies, sinful flesh remains to tempt us from within to be unlike Jesus. She says "every day you are to war against your" "hereditary tendencies to wrong" and "objectionable traits of character" which "will strive for the mastery." Again, having sinful tendencies and sinful traits of character is not the same thing as acting them out in cherished thoughts, or words, or deeds. When subdued and subjected to the higher powers, they do not cause guilt or condemnation.

Re: Born again free from sin: True or false? [Re: Mountain Man] #145714
10/02/12 10:13 PM
10/02/12 10:13 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Mountain Man, Reading all of the quotations you provide is a real blessing, subduing the carnal will and nature. In a way this sums it up:

Quote:
You have confessed your sins, and in heart put them away. You have resolved to give yourself to God. Now go to Him, and ask that He will wash away your sins and give you a new heart. Then believe that He does this because He has promised. (SC 49)


That new heart demands the old heart is removed - in death to self. Thank God that Jesus washes the sins away, because we cannot do that ourselves.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Born again free from sin: True or false? [Re: Johann] #145728
10/03/12 06:59 PM
10/03/12 06:59 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Amen, pastor. God is good. Thank you, Jesus. Not everyone agrees, though. Too many good people think believers are born again with self in tact (to be crucified slowly, gradually throughout the rest of their earthly sojourn). Some even believe the "clamors of our fallen nature" (DA 122) counts as sinning for which believers are guilty and condemned (even it they refuse to out the clamors of sinful flesh).

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
The Gospel According To John
by dedication. 05/05/24 05:39 AM
2nd Quarter 2024 The Great Controversy
by dedication. 05/03/24 02:55 AM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 04/30/24 10:34 PM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Rick H. 04/26/24 06:05 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: The Sunday Law
by dedication. 04/22/24 05:15 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: Part Two
by TruthinTypes. 04/21/24 11:14 PM
Where is the crises with Climate mandates?
by dedication. 04/21/24 09:25 PM
Iran strikes Israel as War Expands
by dedication. 04/21/24 05:07 PM
What Happens at the End.
by Rick H. 04/20/24 11:39 AM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 04/18/24 05:51 PM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:24 PM
Chinese Revival?
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 06:12 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
What Does EGW Say About Ordination?
by dedication. 05/05/24 05:07 AM
When Does Satan Impersonate Christ?
by Rick H. 05/03/24 10:09 AM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by dedication. 05/02/24 08:58 PM
The Papacy And The American Election
by Rick H. 04/30/24 09:34 AM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by dedication. 04/22/24 06:04 PM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:19 AM
A Second American Civil War?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:39 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:34 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 07:10 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1