HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,653
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 17
kland 6
Daryl 2
May
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Member Spotlight
Kevin H
Kevin H
New York
Posts: 629
Joined: November 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
5 registered members (dedication, Kevin H, Karen Y, 2 invisible), 2,891 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: Paradoxical Pronouncements #14864
07/06/05 06:00 PM
07/06/05 06:00 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
quote:
If Satan presents his own work as God's, how do we know when it is Satan acting and when it is God?
MM: Technically, it wouldn't matter. Why? Because God is ultimately in control.

Tom: If it doesn't matter whether God does something or Satan does something, what's the difference between good and evil, and Satan and God?

Re: Paradoxical Pronouncements #14865
07/06/05 07:55 PM
07/06/05 07:55 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Essentially there is no difference so far as God being in control. Of course, the differences between Jesus and Satan as individual beings are night and day.

Re: Paradoxical Pronouncements #14866
07/06/05 10:00 PM
07/06/05 10:00 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
What are the differences? According to you we can't discern the difference, correct? And they are "technically the same". So how could they be as different as night and day?

Re: Paradoxical Pronouncements #14867
07/06/05 10:52 PM
07/06/05 10:52 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
God has allowed Satan to harass and kill people over and over again for the last 6,000 years, right? Well, this insight doesn't mean Jesus is a murderer, but it does mean God is in control. And, God assumes responsibility for everything He allows Satan to do. The devil isn't free to torment people whenever and however he pleases. No, he must operate within the restrictions placed upon him by God. The devil is doing nothing more and nothing less than God permits. Satan is a very obedient devil, isn't he?

Re: Paradoxical Pronouncements #14868
07/06/05 11:07 PM
07/06/05 11:07 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Of course all created beings can do but what God permits. And it's also true that God accepts responsibility for all that happens in His universe. This is in accordance to His gracious character.

In reality, Satan is responsible for all the evil that exists. The Great Controversy is about demonstrating this reality. However, Satan accepts responsibility for none of what he has done, casting blame instead upon God.

God is the opposite. He is not responsible for evil in any way. Yet He graciously accepts the responsibility for that for which He is not at fault.

quote:
I restored that which I took not away. Ps. 69:4
The judgement will show that God was innocent of any and all wrongdoing. He is, and never has been, in any way responsible for sin, in spite of the fact that He has graciously taken it upon Himself to fix things, regardless of the cost (which was unimaginably heavy).

Regarding Satan being "an obedient devil", no, that's in no ways true. Satan is disobedient, a murderer, thief, and liar from the beginning, and he in no way reflects God's will or character, in spite God's ability to work things to His own purposes despite the evil acts or intentions of those who fight against Him.

Re: Paradoxical Pronouncements #14869
07/06/05 11:44 PM
07/06/05 11:44 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
It's one thing to say God can bring good out of evil, which is true, but it is quite another thing to say that He regulates evil itself. In other words, Satan cannot do anything more or less than what God permits him to do. You're right, Satan isn't an obedient little demon. Instead, God commissions holy angels to make sure Satan doesn't cross the boundaries that God has established. The fact it is God who determines how much evil is permitted is evidence that God is control of evil and Satan.

Re: Paradoxical Pronouncements #14870
07/06/05 11:55 PM
07/06/05 11:55 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I'm sure noone will dispute that Satan cannot do anything that God does not permit him to do. Satan would kill us all if he could, because he hates God and he knows God loves us.

Re: Paradoxical Pronouncements #14871
07/21/05 02:36 AM
07/21/05 02:36 AM
Ikan  Offline OP
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
Back to this topic's purposes:

Concerning the "apparent contradiction" of king Saul killing himself and God saying He killed him:

God released His sustaining protection because Saul rejected God, sought Satan's helpers for "light". But this was after a loooong record of rejecting Truth, being bloodthirsty and self-centered.

This final release of protection did leave Saul vulnerable to Satan's suggestions and therefore Saul killed himself out of fear of what would become of him when the enemy troops fell on him.

BUT...The secondary point is that it is written in the Word in both ways in order that we can arrive at this conversation.

The paradoxes are on purpose.

God is never surprised; but He never forces love, either, or manipulates people. He leaves then to their own choices.

We all get what we want, in the End.

Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
The Gospel According To John
by dedication. 05/28/24 02:32 PM
Meaning of Lazarus and the Rich Man
by dedication. 05/27/24 10:56 PM
What is the Biblical Reckoning of a Day?
by dedication. 05/27/24 01:26 AM
Soul and Body sleep
by Rick H. 05/25/24 09:15 AM
The Flood
by Rick H. 05/25/24 09:12 AM
2nd Quarter 2024 The Great Controversy
by dedication. 05/21/24 02:04 PM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 05/06/24 12:18 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
Who is the AntiChrist? (Identifying Him)
by dedication. 05/29/24 01:05 AM
What Does EGW Say About Ordination?
by dedication. 05/28/24 12:05 AM
Are we seeing a outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
by Rick H. 05/06/24 12:29 PM
A Second American Civil War?
by Rick H. 05/06/24 12:27 PM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by kland. 05/06/24 10:32 AM
When Does Satan Impersonate Christ?
by Rick H. 05/03/24 10:09 AM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by dedication. 05/02/24 08:58 PM
The Papacy And The American Election
by Rick H. 04/30/24 09:34 AM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1