"Some think that they must be so wonderfully orthodox, but they are not orthodox at all after Christ's order. They catch some little point and dwell upon it, magnifying it above all else.

Of those who do not see as they do they say,
"We do not want this man to preach because he does not see this point," and,
"We do not want that man to preach because he does not see that point."
But they do not know what they are about. Leave that man with God.
It is not for you to dissect the ideas of this one and that one.

We served our time at this at Minneapolis. Let there be no more of it in the work of God. {"serving time" is a prison expression!~~Phil}

God wants us to realize that judgment is right upon us. Let us beware lest before we are aware of it, the thief comes upon us with stealthy tread. Let us stand where we look not at the defects and errors of others, but at Jesus, saying, "I have an individual case pending in the heavenly courts. It means everything to me whether I shall be weighed in the balances of the sanctuary and found complete in him, or whether I shall be found wanting." {1888 1753.3}

"It is not orthodox theories, not membership in the church, not the diligent performance of a certain round of duties, that gives evidence of life.
In an ancient tower in Switzerland I saw the image of a man that moved as if it possessed life{In German it is called a 'glockenspiel'~~Phil}.
It looked like a living man, and I whispered when I came near, as if it could hear me. But though the image looked like life, it had no real life. It was moved by machinery.
Motion is not necessarily life. We may go through all the forms and ceremonies of religion; but unless we are alive in Christ, our work is worthless." {RH, April 21, 1903 par. 8}

Amen Phil,

May God protect us from self-appointed "orthodoxy police".

"Inquire, 'What saith the Lord?' Go to Him for help. Depend not on the opinions of human beings; for they are liable to err. Go to the Lord God of Israel. He will give you understanding and knowledge. You are not to lean on any human being. {6MR 311.1}


Thats a really good quotation that Phil gave there. That's what I was saying before on another topic. We need to stop turning to human beings, even if they are church leaders, for understanding about our doctrines... and study the Scriptures for ourselves, because all men are liable to err.

"The Lord would have His people divested of evrything unscriptural in regard to the ministry. The men called to the ministry should not be made idols of; they should not be looked upon with superstitious reverence..." Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 11, 1898. pgs. 2-13.

Some act like they think they need to go from one religious leader to another.. to have them explain the Bible to them, just as if we were Catholics who need to go to a priest to interpret the Bible for us.

Ps:119:99: I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.

If you lean upon a human being for wisdom, you are liable to find out the hard way that you are very possibly leaning upon a broken reed. Thats why so many were deceived when Jesus came the first time... they wouldnt accept Him because their leaders didnt accept Him. They trusted to what the leaders said instead of studying the Scriptures for themselves.

Unfortunately, there are some amongst us who put forth the impression that they have some sort of "new light" on the scriptures and that those who are in any way critical of it must therefore be "unopen to the light". But in reality at the end of the line when you follow out their many errors mixed in with a few truths, you see that you wind up on the wrong road entirely. Orthodox can be a good thing.


“Our people need to understand the reasons of our faith and our past experiences. How sad it is that so many of them apparently place unlimited confidence in men who present theories tending to uproot our past experiences and to remove the old landmarks! Those who can so easily be led by a false spirit show that they have been following the wrong captain for some time,—so long that they do not discern that they are departing from the faith or that they are not building upon the true foundation . We need to urge all to put on their spiritual eyeglasses, to have their eyes anointed that they may see clearly and discern the true pillars of faith. Then they will know that ‘the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his.’ We need to revive the old evidences of the faith once delivered to the saints” The Southern Watchman 4/5/04.


"As a people we have been greatly humiliated by the course that some of our
brethren in responsible positions have taken in departing from the old
landmarks. There are those who, in order to carry out their plans, have by
their words denied their faith. This shows how little dependence can be placed on human wisdom and judgment.
"Now, as never before, we need to see the danger of being led unguardedly
away from loyalty to God's commands. We need to realize that God has given us a decided message of warning for the world, even as He gave Noah a message of warning for the antediluvians.
"Let our people beware of departing from the principles of our faith,
making it appear that it is not wrong to conform to the world. Let them be
afraid of heeding the counsel of any man, whatever his position may be, who works counter to that which God has wrought in order to keep His people separate from the world." -Testimonies volume 7, pages 106,107.


Some who claim to have new light will in reality lead people to come away with the idea that sin really doesnt matter that much. Oh sure, they will deny that they teach that... but in the end, you can be sure that this is what they are really getting at.

I'll take Orthodox any day when it is obvious that someone is trying to deceive you.


Claudia

[ July 04, 2005, 02:08 AM: Message edited by: Claudia Thompson ]

Thanks, Claudia; I agree with many things you brought to light.

There are two spiritual ditches on the sides of the Road towards heaven, you might say, and many like to label them:

Bigotry vs.Lenience; Hot vs. Cold; Pedantry vs. Wisdom from Jesus; Cloaked vs. Honest, etc.

But I think that the two Spirit of Prophecy verses that I posted , however, are not presenting exactly what you brought up (false light vs. true light, corrupt leadership vs. true teachership), but rather a less discussed problem.

Take a second and go back and re-read the first post: what is the connection, the underlying thought that she is protesting? What are the unChristlike actions she is revealing?

It's not light, leadership or even the validity of the term "orthodox".

It is the controlling of fellowmen in the name of Jesus. It is lack of real life in professed religious men who wish to dictate what and how other people should conform to their views and habits.

It is replacing the Head with their head.

It is the mystery throughout all recorded time, that stuns angels and helped kill our Lord in Jerusalem, that got Paul arrested in the Temple:
the "followers" of Him who sets men free, attempting to bind His people again to men's religious demands.

I just have to say one more thing then Im done.

Remember the story of the frog who sat in the warm water and someone kept turning up the heat just one degree at a time till finally the water is boiling and the frog ends up getting boiled to death because he didnt realize what was really happening, he gets conditioned step by step to accept the one degree off course of the "normal" temperature?

Well that is really exactly what some are doing to the Adventist people today.They instead of turning the Jesus and their Bibles and the Spirit of Prophecy for themselves and studying out the truth, they think they need to turn to the latest "Adventist Guru" to explain to them what we believe.

Some of these Gurus claiming to have some sort of "New Light" for us will step by step, one degree at a time, lead us away from the old Landmarks of truth. Of course they claim we "really didnt know the truth to begin with" but they are going to explain it to you.

They will end up leading you to believe that "If you only have a relationship with Jesus, then if you are living in sin, dont really worry about that". Because you are a "genuine" Christian who has a relationship. Or "the Mark of the Beast means to rest from your own works". And everybody gushes with admiration because this leader with "new light" supposedly has told us some new "wonderful truth".

Slowly, one degree at a time, they lead you away from the truth. Every once in awhile you will notice... this error and that error, yet, once in awhile some plausible ideas are thrown in there to get you to accept one after another small diversion from the truth that you would never have accepted before. Till finally in the end you are left really believing that you are ok with your sins because after all "You have a relationship with Jesus" Just like the poor frog in the water, one degree at a time.

And if someone tries to explain this to people, they will use the line, "Oh you are just a person who is unwilling to be open to new ideas"...

I do see your point, but have you read my last post?

We are really discussing two different problems.

Claudia stated as part of her post:

quote:

---

We need to stop turning to human beings, even if they are church leaders, for understanding about our doctrines... and study the Scriptures for ourselves, because all men are liable to err.

---

When examining the Scriptures for ourselves, we also need to realize that, as human beings ourselves, we can also err. One possible sign of our erring is if we seem to be all alone on our understanding of something.

So true, Daryl!

There is a fine balance between self-generated ideas and new insights into old truths. The Lord has provided tests for us to know we are on a straight path.

"To the Law and the Testimony..." is Rule One; however most SDAs claim that they obey this. The sad confusion among many is evidence that this is supposed and not factual in many cases.

The other tests are strictly personal and when urged as "evidence" of one's station, one must be very much on the alert for fruits and not mere words:

witnesses through providence (doors opening or closing),miracles and angelic intervention, along with thorough objective research and confirmation through answered prayer.

Another of these tests, as Daryl observes is that unsolicitated confirmation will come from others. Only if it is not urged through personal attachments, "orthodoxy tests", and any other subtle bending of christian honesty in order to gather converts to one's opinions.

God knows how to teach us, and having Family members agreeing with your studys is wonderful, IF sincere, and with no strings attached.


Notice in my original EGW quotes she is speaking of control by the religious who wish to appear orthodox, but who are mechanical and cold.