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Re: Our Guardian Angels? [Re: Johann] #149123
01/18/13 08:59 PM
01/18/13 08:59 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
That covers a lot of ground... Can you be more specific?


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Our Guardian Angels? [Re: JAK] #149124
01/19/13 01:32 AM
01/19/13 01:32 AM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
So let me understand...We are expected to believe the most random stuff based on the absolutely solid and irrefutable evidence of...

...wait for it...

the fact that we can't prove it at all!


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Our Guardian Angels? [Re: JAK] #149125
01/19/13 01:52 AM
01/19/13 01:52 AM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
Here is another quote from the writings of EGW:
Quote:
In all ages, God has wrought through holy angels for the succor and deliverance of his people. Celestial beings have taken an active part in the affairs of men. They have appeared clothed in garments that shone as the lightning; they have come as men, in the garb of wayfarers. Angels have appeared in human form to men of God. They have rested, as if weary, under the oaks at noon. They have accepted the hospitalities of human homes. They have acted as guides to benighted travelers. They have, with their own hands, kindled the fires of the altar. They have opened prison doors, and set free the servants of the Lord. Clothed with the panoply of Heaven, they came to roll away the stone from the Saviour's tomb. {GC88 631.2}

In the form of men, angels are often in the assemblies of the righteous, and they visit the assemblies of the wicked, as they went to Sodom, to make a record of their deeds, to determine whether they have passed the boundary of God's forbearance. The Lord delights in mercy; and for the sake of a few who really serve him, he restrains calamities, and prolongs the tranquillity of multitudes. Little do sinners against God realize that they are indebted for their own lives to the faithful few whom they delight to ridicule and oppress. {GC88 631.3}

Though the rulers of this world know it not, yet often in their councils angels have been spokesmen. Human eyes have looked upon them; human ears have listened to their appeals; human lips have opposed their suggestions and ridiculed their counsels; human hands have met them with insult and abuse. In the council hall and the court of justice, these heavenly messengers have shown an intimate acquaintance with human history; they have proved themselves better able to plead the cause of the oppressed than were their ablest and most eloquent defenders. They have defeated purposes and arrested evils that would have greatly retarded the work of God, and would have caused great suffering to his people. In the hour of peril and distress, “the angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.” [Psalm 34:7.] {GC88 632.1}

Angels functioning as spokesmen can be easily accomplished by God, if and when He so desires to use His angels in such a manner, therefore, I wouldn't limit God in His ability to accomplish this.

If the Bible had stated that angels were and can be used as His spokesmen in the manner described by EGW, would you have accepted that?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Our Guardian Angels? [Re: Daryl] #149127
01/19/13 04:05 AM
01/19/13 04:05 AM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Um...didn't you just re-post the same quote? dunno

Just to be clear, I did not say that God could not do this. I merely asked for someone to note an event when angels had been used.

In virtually every every council room and court house where we have record of human discourse we know the people involved. In which discussion do we look at the tapes and say "Who's that guy? Where'd he come from?" "Gee, dunno. Must be an angel."

God can inspire people to speak his word...True!
God can work through human agencies.......True!
God sends people to influence judges, politicians etc,...True!
God sends angels to speak in human courts.........Um..False?

So before we proceed let's make certain that we understand the difficulty. It's not that God can't, or that EGW said it instead of the Bible, The question is When has this happened?


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Our Guardian Angels? [Re: JAK] #149129
01/19/13 11:49 AM
01/19/13 11:49 AM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
When has this happened?

As angels wouldn't obviously manifest themselves as angels in such situations, we will not find any record of an angel doing that, however, if EGW said it happened, or is happening, then God can take care of how it can happen in those circumstances.

It's probably a question that we will need to ask Him directly sometime after the 2nd Coming.

By the way, my 2nd quote wasn't exactly the same as the 1st one.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Our Guardian Angels? [Re: Daryl] #149136
01/19/13 04:33 PM
01/19/13 04:33 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Originally Posted By: Daryl
When has this happened?

As angels wouldn't obviously manifest themselves as angels in such situations, we will not find any record of an angel doing that,


I refer you to my previous post, ie: we are to believe based on absolutely no evidence.


Originally Posted By: Daryl
however, if EGW said it happened, or is happening, then God can take care of how it can happen in those circumstances.


I'm sorry. I refuse to give EGW that much divinity.

Originally Posted By: Daryl
By the way, my 2nd quote wasn't exactly the same as the 1st one.


Neither was it substantially different.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Our Guardian Angels? [Re: JAK] #149137
01/19/13 10:06 PM
01/19/13 10:06 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
I don't give EGW any divinity in the same manner that I don't give any of the various Bible writers any divinity, however, I believe that EGW was inspired by God to write what she wrote in a similar manner that I believe all the various Bible writers were also inspired by God to write what they wrote.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Our Guardian Angels? [Re: Daryl] #149139
01/19/13 11:10 PM
01/19/13 11:10 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Many years ago I read a couple of books published by our publishing houses which contained many stories of angels appearing like human beings helping people in desperate situations.

If you search you will find some stories like that in the Bible too.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Our Guardian Angels? [Re: Johann] #149141
01/20/13 12:00 AM
01/20/13 12:00 AM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
Continuing on from my previous post here, don't you think that God could give an angel all the necessary credentials needed today, if called upon to present those credentials, in order for that angel to speak before the various councils of men?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Our Guardian Angels? [Re: Daryl] #149154
01/20/13 07:56 PM
01/20/13 07:56 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
First, the word "often" is very relative; second, the passage is speaking of special occasions, when the people of God was being "persecuted and oppressed," or when decisions would have "greatly retarded the work of God" or brought "great suffering" upon His people. It obviously is not saying that the direct intervention of angels is occurring today in legislative decisions of western nations.

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