Daryl moved this post into another discussion when at the time he thought this was between Jak and GC. Now that everyone was always invited in, I would like to bring back my post here to address two main point that GC brought which I will prove with scriptures that these are untrue:

A) If it is Good, it is from God.
B) If it is from God, it is Inspired.


May I add a thought here? It is good that Jak seeks the meaning of “good”. I want to quote this text from Young’s translation as it brings the full wordings of the original manuscript.
“YLT Ja 1:17 every good giving, and every perfect gift is from above;”

The text talks about a “good giving”. When children receive treats or toys, they see these as “good giving”or a “perfect gift”. But when they receive discipline, their perspective of these is often seen as “bad” or “evil”. So good and evil is all relevant to the receiver and to their maturity. Discipline coming from the Lord is one of His “good giving” and is a “perfect gift”. However, for an immature child/Christian, it is often seen as “evil” and most attributes these as coming from Satan. The Christian that comes into maturity, will come to see that these “evil” were truly the Lord’s disciplines and sees that without them they wouldn’t of have grown, so these were in really “good” and perfect gifts despite at the time it was hard.

Heb 12: 4” In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says, “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you, 6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.” 7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness.11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.”

Someone can be sent by the Almighty to do His bidings and may not be inspired. In another word despite a source may not be speaking truth or "inspired", they may still be sent by the Lord. We see this principle at several places in the Bible but I’ll refer to two.

1. In Deut 13:1-5 defines a “false” prophets and says that even if “a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder come to pass” these doesn’t prove that this is a true prophet. Then the Lord states the reason for sending him which is to test our hearts :v.3 “Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer or dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God which all your heart and with all your soul”. Dt 13:3 So the purpose the Lord sends false prophets is to test our hearts so we can come to see if we really follow the Lord or not.

4. I don’t think anyone would say that the King of Babylon was inspired at the time the Lord sent him to bring judgment on Israel. Nebuchadnezzar was referred as the Lord’s servants trice (Jer 25:9; 27:6; 43:10). Despite that, the King of Babylon had his own reasons to do what he did, he still did God’s bidding and he fulfilled the law in Lev 26 & Deut 28 upon Judah without having any knowledge of this.

Judah saw Babylon as “evil” and with reasons too; despite Nebuchednezzar was still sent by the Lord to correct them.

These premisis are from GC; I just put together the train of thought which may not have been apparent.

If the error is in "B", then to correct that error we should say that it CAN be from God but NOT BE inspired.

This is my point. Why are we arguing?

The obvious analogy here is the human body. The Bible also uses this analogy. There are parts of the body that some may view as more important than others. Obviously, the head is pretty important, and the unmentionable feet (in some cultures anyway) are more dispensable. But, because the feet are less important to life, does it follow that they are less "created" by God? Did God choose not to create feet because they were not important? Did He let someone/something else make the feet by inserting his/her/its own "ideas?"

Obviously not. There are passages of the Bible that may be more important than others, but there is not a one of them that is "less inspired" because of its level of importance.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

You have altered the train of logic which I had used to the point of me not being willing to say I support this logic. So please don't attribute this logic to me.

The wording you have provided here seems too imprecise to remain valid as a logical argument.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Elle,

You'll have to be more careful in your use of the scriptures if you wish to convince me.

Regarding the "false prophets," for example, you did not fully quote the passage that would give clarity to it, and you have claimed that God sent the false prophets. Where did the Bible say this? I don't see it in that passage, at least. If God sent a false prophet, it would be good. But I don't believe God calls this good, nor did He send such, according to the passage you quoted.



Why would God tell a prophet to give a false prophecy, and then tell the people who heard it to kill that prophet? Would that be fair? But that is what you seem to have implied must be the case, and certainly would be the case, if God had truly sent the false prophet.

Regarding discipline from the Lord, I fully believe it to be good. Just because something may strike us as unpleasant or painful does not make it "bad." It was a very painful experience for the entire Universe to witness the excruciating death of our Savior Jesus Christ. Does that mean it was "bad?" Did Christ "sin" by bringing something "bad" to earth in giving us this example of God's Love? Of a certain not.

God loves those whom He disciplines. "Faithful are the wounds of a friend." Jesus is our Friend.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

These are your words exactly. How have I altered this?

My statement is simply the reverse of your statement: If it isn't from God, it isn't inspired, or, if it IS from God it IS inspired. This is the only statement I have "altered" but only to state it in the reverse.

You have posted a quote in which EGW defends the equality of inspiration. How have I altered this?

As I stated previously, I simply put together the logic that was stated at different times in the conversation. The conclusion follows.

IF it is Good its from God, if it's from God it's inspired, if it's inspired it is all equal, THEREFORE anything good is inspired by God on an equal level.

It seems you may be troubled by the implications of your position.

There is indeed a mistake here. "If it isn't inspired, it isn't from God." Of course he can answer for himself, but in the context of post #151779, I think what GC meant to say was “If it isn’t inspired, it isn’t God’s Word.”

We are arguing because Ellen White claimed to be inspired. She claimed that the messages she wrote were God's messages, not her messages. We are evaluating her own claims. She claimed to have visions. Did God really show things to her or were her visions simply “the result of cross-wiring in the synapses,” as you put it? If the latter is the case, just throw them away; who can trust the words of someone who has a mental disorder? and how can the product of a mental disorder be from God? As I said, it's all or nothing.

This is my question...

Ok. In order to have an answer to your question, what would you like to discuss first?
I've read a lot of EGW, but her writings don't seem at all to me to be the product of a mental disorder. If they seem so to you, perhaps we can discuss some of the points you have a problem with.