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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: APL] #152693
05/30/13 07:56 PM
05/30/13 07:56 PM
APL  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
He who was in the form of God took the form of man.

He who was equal with God became equal with man.

He who was Creator and Lord became creature and servant.

He who was in the likeness of God was made in the likeness of men.

He who was God and Spirit was made man and flesh. John 1:1; John 1:14.

Nor is this true only as to form; it is true as to substance. For Christ was like God in the sense of being of the nature, in very substance, of God. He was made in the likeness of men in the sense of being like men in the nature and very substance of men.

Christ was God. He became man. And when He became man, He was man as really as He was God.

He came to man where man is to bring man to Him where He was and is.

And in order to redeem man from what man is, He was made what man is:--

Man is flesh. Genesis 6:3; John 3:6. "And the Word was made flesh." John 1:14; Hebrews 2:14.

Man is under the law. Romans 3:19. Christ was "made under the law." Galatians 4:4.

Man is under the curse. Galatians 3:10; Zechariah 5:1-4, "Christ was made a curse." Galatians 3:13.

Man is sold under sin (Romans 7:14) and laden with iniquity. Isaiah 1:4. And "the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all." Isaiah 53:6.

Man is "a body of sin." Romans 6:6. And God "hath made Him to be sin." 2 Corinthians 5:21.

Thus, literally, "in all things it behooved Him to be made like unto His brethren."

Yet it must never be forgotten, it must be borne in mind and heart constantly and forever, that in none of this as to man, the flesh, sin, and the curse was Christ ever of Himself or of His own original nature or fault. All this He "was made." "He took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men."

And in all this Christ was "made" what, before, He was not in order that the man might be made now and forever what he is not.

Christ was the Son of God. He became the Son of man that the sons of men might become the sons of God. Galatians 4:4; 1 John 3:1.

Christ was Spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:45. He became flesh in order that man, who is flesh, might become spirit. John 3:6; Romans 8:8-10.

Christ, who was altogether of the divine nature, was made partaker of human nature in order that we who are altogether of the human nature "might be partakers of the divine nature." 2 Peter 1:4.

Christ, who knew no sin, was made to be sin, even the sinfulness of man, in order that we, who knew no righteousness, might be made righteousness, even the righteousness of God.

And as the righteousness of God, which, in Christ, the man is made, is real righteousness, so the sin of men, which Christ was made in the flesh, was real sin.

As certainly as our sins, when upon us, are real sins to us, so certainly, when these sins were laid upon Him, they became real sins to Him.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: APL] #152696
05/31/13 01:01 AM
05/31/13 01:01 AM
asygo  Offline
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Active Member 2023

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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: APL
Sin is in the genetics - it has to be, or this statement by AT Jones is a false statement.

It's possible, even probable, that Jones was not infallible. If your position is founded on Jones being correct, you should seek a stronger foundation.
Jones in his time was reviewed by EGW. If you have doubts, you best have better evidence against him, for even EGW spoke of the hereditary nature of sin. It is interesting that you attack the man, and not his arguments.

I don't have problem with the hereditary nature of sin, as evidenced by my many posts here. I do have a problem with taking A.T. Jones as authoritative.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: APL] #152697
05/31/13 01:01 AM
05/31/13 01:01 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: APL
I repeat the question because you have not provided an answer.

By asking the same question again, do you expect a different answer? Since I didn't provide the answer you wanted the first time, do you think asking the exact same thing again will yield the answer you seek?

Originally Posted By: APL
The nature of sin has been obscured by the evil one. Sin not only affects humans, but all nature. Therefore, it can not be just a thought process on the part of humans.

You conflate sin with its effects. Maybe the nature of sin has been obscured from you.
YOu make my point again.

Glad to be of service.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: asygo] #152698
05/31/13 01:03 AM
05/31/13 01:03 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.


Was Jesus born under grace?

Galatians 4:4
But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,

Last edited by asygo; 05/31/13 01:04 AM.

By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: Rick H] #152699
05/31/13 01:12 AM
05/31/13 01:12 AM
asygo  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Rick H
Would you say John also was born with all the affects of sin, when the race had been weakened by four thousand years of sin.

John and Jesus were born after the human race had been weakened by 4000 years of sin. That's pretty weak.

You and I were born after the human race had been weakened by 6000 years of sin. Jesus had 2000 years less weakness, a significant amount. Does that make Him any less able to help us with our temptations?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: asygo] #152700
05/31/13 02:23 AM
05/31/13 02:23 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.


Was Jesus born under grace?

Galatians 4:4
But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
Define grace.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: asygo] #152701
05/31/13 02:26 AM
05/31/13 02:26 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
I don't have problem with the hereditary nature of sin, as evidenced by my many posts here.
Great. Then if it is inherited, it is in the DNA.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: APL] #152702
05/31/13 02:27 AM
05/31/13 02:27 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
I do have a problem with taking A.T. Jones as authoritative.
Interesting. Do you discount everything that he wrote then?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: APL] #152703
05/31/13 07:10 AM
05/31/13 07:10 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: asygo
I do have a problem with taking A.T. Jones as authoritative.
Interesting. Do you discount everything that he wrote then?

The closer to 1888, the more trustworthy, IMO. But it's never 100%. Therefore, everything needs corroboration.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Reply Quote
Re: Was Jesus born without sin? [Re: APL] #152704
05/31/13 07:11 AM
05/31/13 07:11 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: asygo
I don't have problem with the hereditary nature of sin, as evidenced by my many posts here.
Great. Then if it is inherited, it is in the DNA.

My cousin inherited money from her father. There are ways to inherit things not through DNA.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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