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Re: Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?
[Re: APL]
#153108
06/11/13 09:09 PM
06/11/13 09:09 PM
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SDA Active Member 2023
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To be redeemed is to cease from sin.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?
[Re: asygo]
#153130
06/12/13 05:21 AM
06/12/13 05:21 AM
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To be redeemed is to cease from sin. I'm not so sure. While I think I may be able to understand the spirit of what you are saying, it is not in agreement with the letter of the law, as I see it. For example: Let the redeemed of the LORD say [so], whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy; (Psalm 107:2) I don't think you would feel anyone should run around saying he or she had ceased to sin. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#153131
06/12/13 06:29 AM
06/12/13 06:29 AM
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SDA Active Member 2020
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If our minds are controlled by the Holy Spirit, we shall understand the lesson taught by the parable of the leaven. As the leaven operates on the meal, so the Holy Spirit operates on the human heart, absorbing all the capabilities and powers, bringing soul, body, and spirit into conformity to Christ. Man cannot make this change. It can be made only by the Holy Spirit. In those who submit to the control of the Spirit, new thoughts, new feelings, new purposes are awakened. The mind is changed; the faculties are set to work. . . . {5MR 346.3}
The moment we surrender ourselves to God, believing in Jesus we have the righteousness of Christ. We realize that we have been redeemed from sin, and appreciate His sacrifice to purchase our freedom. . . . This sanctification we must all experience, else we can never gain eternal life. It is obtained by a union with Christ, a union which no power of Satan can break. Christ demands undivided heart-service, the entire use of mind, soul, heart, and strength.--Manuscript 68, 1898, pp. 2, 6-9. ("The Leaven of Truth," June 9, 1898.) {5MR 346.4}
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#153141
06/12/13 04:44 PM
06/12/13 04:44 PM
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To be redeemed is to cease from sin. I'm not so sure. While I think I may be able to understand the spirit of what you are saying, it is not in agreement with the letter of the law, as I see it. For example: Let the redeemed of the LORD say [so], whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy; (Psalm 107:2) I don't think you would feel anyone should run around saying he or she had ceased to sin. To be redeemed means to cease from sin. {RH, September 25, 1900 par. 10}Given that, there is surely a sense in which it is true. But you are right that I would not be comfortable with the idea of someone claiming they had ceased from sin. From the cross to the crown there is wrestling with inbred sin, warfare against outward wrong. Therefore, there is also a sense in which our sin remains while we are on this side of immortality. I conclude that there are different kinds of redemption, and also different levels of redemption. Similarly, there are different kinds of ceasing from sin, and also different levels. So, while it is true that anyone who says he has no sin is deceived, it is also true that whoever is born of God does not sin. Language is not nearly as precise as mathematics.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?
[Re: asygo]
#153145
06/12/13 05:51 PM
06/12/13 05:51 PM
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How does that work? Explain further. I conclude that there are different kinds of redemption, and also different levels of redemption. Similarly, there are different kinds of ceasing from sin, and also different levels. So, while it is true that anyone who says he has no sin is deceived, it is also true that whoever is born of God does not sin. There is only one level of redemption - ceasing to sin. I suspect those that do cease from sin (144,000?) will still not trust themselves and would never claim it this side of the second coming.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?
[Re: APL]
#153151
06/12/13 11:37 PM
06/12/13 11:37 PM
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SDA Active Member 2023
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There are hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil that must be overcome. Appetite and passion must be brought under the control of the Holy Spirit. There is no end to the warfare this side of eternity. {CT 20.2}
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?
[Re: asygo]
#153155
06/13/13 02:30 AM
06/13/13 02:30 AM
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SDA Active Member 2020
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There are hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil that must be overcome. Appetite and passion must be brought under the control of the Holy Spirit. There is no end to the warfare this side of eternity. {CT 20.2} AMEN Had not Jacob previously repented of his sin in obtaining the birthright by fraud, God would not have heard his prayer and mercifully preserved his life. So, in the time of trouble, if the people of God had unconfessed sins to appear before them while tortured with fear and anguish, they would be overwhelmed; despair would cut off their faith, and they could not have confidence to plead with God for deliverance. But while they have a deep sense of their unworthiness, they have no concealed wrongs to reveal. Their sins have gone beforehand to judgment and have been blotted out, and they cannot bring them to remembrance. {GC 620.1}
All who endeavor to excuse or conceal their sins, and permit them to remain upon the books of heaven, unconfessed and unforgiven, will be overcome by Satan. The more exalted their profession and the more honorable the position which they hold, the more grievous is their course in the sight of God and the more sure the triumph of their great adversary. Those who delay a preparation for the day of God cannot obtain it in the time of trouble or at any subsequent time. The case of all such is hopeless. {GC 620.2}
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?
[Re: APL]
#153177
06/13/13 10:17 PM
06/13/13 10:17 PM
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Been blotted out from where?
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?
[Re: asygo]
#153180
06/13/13 10:47 PM
06/13/13 10:47 PM
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Sins can not be brought back to remembrance. Explore that thought - in the second life, David and Bathsheba are speaking together and along come Uriah. Will David and Bathsheba remember their deeds? Next comes Solomon and sees Bathsheba and says hi Mom! Uriah sees the man and says, I did not have a son, when were you born. He discovers he was born 6 months after his own death. Awkward moment! Will they remember their "sins"? Will everyone forget their past? The saved get to heaven but have no idea why? Is behavior sin? Is the act of murder and adultery the sin? Or are these "sins" little "s", which are symptoms of the disease "Sin" big "S".
The disease Sin, has bad behavior, but as in medicine, if you treat the symptoms without treating the disease, your symptoms might not go away and you might get more of them. You have to treat the disease, and guess what? The bad behaviors go away.
There is no legal method of making sin go away. You can't legislate it. A person needs a new heart and right spirit. Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, said the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?
[Re: APL]
#153184
06/14/13 12:04 AM
06/14/13 12:04 AM
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SDA Active Member 2023
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So I guess you are saying the sins are blotted out from heaven.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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